I wasn't going to post anything about this because its a he said, she said incident with no proof and both sides are complete wack jobs with a history of blatantly lying/and or making crazy things up.......but then, this piece of evidence hit me profoundly.
If we remember, the only reason that President Clinton got busted was because of the DNA evidence on Monica's dress. He was in the process of trying to obliterate her credibility with his denial to the American people in a special address "I did not have sexual relations with the woman"
It would have worked but you can't fool science.
Get this, now.
The judge noted that Carroll would not be entitled now to get a DNA sample from Trump, because the process of exchanging evidence, known as discovery, is completed.
“Her counsel have had plenty of opportunities in both of the two related cases to move to compel Mr. Trump to submit a DNA sample,” Kaplan wrote. “Had they done so, they almost certainly would have gotten it. But Ms. Carroll’s counsel never moved to compel Mr. Trump to submit a DNA sample. They obviously decided to go to trial without it.”
Beyond a shadow of a doubt, if she really had the Trump DNA on her dress as claimed, she would have compelled Trump to submit a sample. It would have clinched the case, just like with Clinton.
But she didn't compel Trump to submit a sample.
It's clear that she used the purported dress as a publicity/marketing scheme ala the Monica vs Clinton saga to convince the public that she saved a dress for 20 years with Trump's DNA.
BTW, this is one of the most extremely courageous, fearless ladies on the planet. To believe that she was afraid to come out with this for 20 years.....then suddenly come out of the woodwork with what is a pretty crazy story(after telling others they should report rapes immediately and showing great disdain for men in general) is extremely hard to believe.
It's always possible, so I kept my keyboard quiet until reading about the dynamics of how the DNA evidence went down. No way she is telling the truth about it. Since credibility of the victim is everything here..........despite me having great disdain personally for Trump, I think she's lying.
Carroll's attorneys served notice to a Trump attorney for Trump to submit a sample March 2 for "analysis and comparison against unidentified male DNA present on the dress."
Carroll said she didn't do so for decades because she feared legal retribution from Trump and damage to her reputation, among other reasons. But when the #MeToo movement spurred reader requests for advice about sexual assault, she said, she decided she had to disclose her own account.
Trump, a Republican, isn't the first president to face the prospect of a DNA test related to a woman's dress.
Former President Bill Clinton, a Democrat, underwent such a test during an independent counsel investigation into whether he had a sexual relationship with onetime White House intern Monica Lewinsky and then lied in denying it under oath.
After Clinton's DNA was found on the dress, he acknowledged an "inappropriate intimate relationship" with Lewinsky.
Clinton was impeached by the House in December 1998 and later acquitted by the Senate.
This was nothing but a press release and really dishonest coverage by the MSM trying to turn a manufactured story about the dress into evidence similar to what Monica had against Clinton.
Her and her attorneys deciding to NOT use the dress and Trumps DNA is 100% proof that it was a complete hoax.
Want more proof?
Mar 27, 2023, 3:26 PM CDT
In 2021, Carroll tweeted about Trump's mounting legal issues, writing, "Cyrus Vance, the Manhattan District Attorney, has Trump's taxes. Fani Willis, the Georgia Prosecutor, has Trump's phone call. Mary Trump has her grandfather's will. And I have the dress. Trump is basically in deep shit."
In their press releases to get publicity, they also sent out an image of what is supposed to be the dress she saved from over 2 decades ago. We all save things that have sentimental value but who saves the dress they were wearing to remember a rape for 20+ years, well beyond the statue of limitations(that was opened back up with a 1 year window for her case to come forward).
Did she save it because it had the DNA evidence?
That can't be because she and her lawyers decided to NOT GET AND USE Trumps DNA.
Was it because they overlooked something or missed a legal deadline?
Since they spent so much effort trying to convince the public they had the smoking gun, DNA proof using this dress with several press releases...........even an image of it to be posted in the articles claiming she had the dress with Trump's DNA, thats not conceivable unless it was intentional.
The dress story was completely contrived. Extremely high confidence. If she would manufacture a lie that big about this, then I can't believe anything she says.
Some say they are "questioning ELLE's commitment" to women" following Carroll's termination.
E. Jean Carroll, a veteran advice columnist at ELLE magazine who last year accused President Donald Trump of raping her in the mid-1990s, said she was fired from her editorial position at the end of 2019 after nearly 30 years because of Trump's public debasement of her character.
“Because Trump ridiculed my reputation, laughed at my looks, & dragged me through the mud, after 26 years, ELLE fired me,” Carroll wrote on Twitter. “I don’t blame Elle. It was the great honor of my life writing ‘Ask E. Jean.’”
Carroll, 76, first discussed the sexual assault allegation in her 2019 book "What Do We Need Men For?" — an excerpt of which was published in New York magazine prior to its release last June. In that excerpt, the writer said that she was assaulted by Trump in a Bergdorf Goodman dressing room during a "colossal struggle.
She blames Trump for her getting fired. There is nobody that knows this lady better than her employer of 26 years. They know about the dozens of crazy stories she has written about during that time. Imagine the flack that a womans magazine has had to take for firing a woman for coming forward about a rape case?
They totally knew that but fired her anyway because they didn't want such a fraud and liar working for them and possibly concerned that they would be the target for a multi million dollar lawsuit because she used them to help her communicate this lie.
They know 10 times more about this woman than any of us will ever know.
But we do know about the elaborate fake dress scheme.
Jurors in a civil case in NY are not likely to be very friendly to Donald Trump. Regardless of what THEY decide, this lady has proven fraudulence.
They will not even be allowed to know any details about the dress scheme because the judge banned any discussion of DNA evidence.........a big blow to Trumps side"
Alina Habba, one of Trump's attorneys, argued in a motion last month that the defense is entitled to question Carroll "with respect to the fact that she publicly, and falsely, proclaimed that she was in possession of Defendant's DNA" to support their argument that Carroll "manufactured her defamation claim for the purpose of garnering publicity."
In his ruling Monday, Kaplan refuted that Carroll's statement was false since the dress was never tested, and Trump's DNA could very well be on it. He also said bringing up DNA at trial would be "distracting and needlessly confusing for the jury, and ultimately would not contribute materially to a fair result in this case."
Right-o Judge. We wouldn't want the authentic fact that makes it crystal clear to me that this lady is lying confuse the jurors with the truth.
Stunning Result in Trump’s Sexual Assault Trial
A new first — and a new low — for the former president.
A new low...........for the criminal justice system.
Trump has no credibility with me. I might be tempted to believe Jack the Ripper over him.
However, this nutcase lady has some big holes in her story.
The one that debunks her honesty is her doing a press release, along with a picture of the supposed dress she saved for over 2 decades with Donald Trump's DNA on it.
Pushed out there with the false narrative that created images of Bill Clinton and Monika Lewinski in our heads.
With Lewinski, Bill Clinton had to submit his DNA for testing and he got busted.
With Jean Carroll, she apparently didn't want the DNA because her side didn't get DNA from Trump to compare it. Trump, like Clinton would have had no choice but she didn't make him submit his DNA.
That tells us this was just part of an elaborate scheme to make us THINK Trumps DNA was on the dress.
Time for trial and Trumps attorneys want to use the Carroll dress scheme to show the jury how conniving/dishonest she is.
Judge: You can't bring up anything to do with the dress because it would just confuse the jury.
WOW! Confusion as in “see a publicity scam Instead of a rape”
A new low for the biased, get Trump justice system!
This is what the jury found:
The verdict came, however, with an important qualification: The jury concluded that Carroll did not prove that Trump had raped her, as Carroll had alleged, but that Trump had nevertheless sexually abused her. A finding of rape would have required the jury to conclude that Trump had engaged in non-consensual sexual intercourse with Carroll, but the jury apparently opted to conclude that something short of that — but nevertheless disturbing, illegal and sexually abusive — had happened.
The jury did not believe Carroll, that Trump raped her so instead of finding in favor of Trump, they still decided that there was some sort of sexual abuse.
How absurd. If Trump did not rape this lady, then she is lying. Maybe the jury was split on that, some thought it was rape and others thought there was no rape..........so instead of finding Trump innocent because they couldn't agree, 12-0, which is what usually would happen.... they hated Trump so much that they split the difference and went with something to get Trump, so he wouldn't be found not guilty.
She insisted it was rape. They didn't believe that. But instead of doing what most objective jurors do after the person is unable to prove their case.......they wanted Trump to be guilty of something.
So the jury decides to make up something in between and assign that to Trump's actions and vote for that.
The jury concluded within hours that Trump was liable on two civil claims brought by Carroll under New York law — one for battery, and another for defamation based on Trump’s denial of Carroll’s allegations in a post on Truth Social in October 2022.
So somebody can falsely accuse you of rape, then if you post something derogatory on social media defending yourself, it's defamation ON YOU and a jury can award you 5 million for it.
WELLLL, MIKE...... I PERSONALLY DON'T KNOW OF ONE WOMAN (INCLUDING MYSELF) THAT HASN'T BEEN ACCOSTED BY AT LEAST ONE "MAN" & NEEDED TO FIGHT HIM OFF.
THE VERY REASON WHY I'VE ALWAYS BELIEVED THERE ARE MEN & THERE ARE MALES. JUST AS THERE ARE WOMEN & THERE ARE FEMALES. A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MEN & MALES ~ WOMEN & FEMALES...IMO
I think Trump's narcissism and feeling of omnipotence, which is being fed by tens of millions in his cult, cost himself on this too.
In his deposition, in response to being questioned about his comment about grabbing women by their P, his response was incredulously to defend it.
When the jury heard this, even though they felt this lady was lying about the rape, it made them want to get Trump for something.
Asked in the deposition about the veracity of his thoughts in the “Access Hollywood” tape, Trump replied, "Well, historically, that's true with stars."
"Well, if you look over the last million years, I guess that's been largely true," Trump said. "Not always, but largely true. Unfortunately, or fortunately."
"And you consider yourself to be a star?" Trump was asked.
“I think you can say that, yeah," he said.
In the “Today” show interview, Kaplan rhetorically asked, “Who uses the word ‘fortunately’ to talk about sexual assault?”
This lady had no proof and even tried to perpetrate a fake dress DNA scam which obliterates her credibility for anybody that cares about that.
What she did have was the perfect vulnerable victim(because people think Trump is capable of doing things like this and Trump has 0 credibility so nobody believes anything he says-guilty even without evidence), perfect place(biased NY judge and jury-in a city that hates his guts) and perfect time to get him.
He continued to claim he did not know Carroll, although a photo introduced at the trial showed them at a New York party several years before Carroll said he assaulted her.
This is their proof that Trump knew her below:
Donald Trump, E. Jean Carroll, John Johnson and Ivana Trump at an NBC party, late 1980s.
U.S. District Court in Manhattan
How many parties with how many people do you think Trump went to in the 1970's-2000's?
Hundreds of parties, many thousands of people, the vast majority, Trump would not know.
So this picture at a party was evidence in court that Trump was lying about knowing Jean Carroll.
When I was on television for 11 years and a local celebrity, I met thousands of people( I often did around 50 speaking engagements/appearances/year) who all knew me and I had no clue who they were. If you asked me if I knew any of those people, even ones coming up for an autograph or just to meet me, my answer would be sincerely no.
Trump was a huge celebrity in the late 1980's. People wanted to meet him and to get a picture of themselves with him.
The idea that he knew this lady because of this picture is pathetic logic to anybody understanding the authentic dynamics.
Carroll’s attorneys were also carefully demonstrating to the jury that Trump has a longstanding pattern of lying.
That's EXACTLY what worked.
Don't look at the total lack of evidence. Assume Trump is guilty because of his long track record of lying and find him guilty because of that.
This is why the judge wouldn't allow the Carroll fake dress DNA evidence scheme in that would have greatly damaged her credibility.
It's not about her, it's about Trump. They obviously didn't all believe her rape accusation because she had no evidence.
Trump does lie more than any other politician in history. Constant, eye rolling ridiculous lies that get worse each year because of his worsening mental illness.
Make no mistake, people. Donald Trump is mentally ill in a medically identifiable, clinically significant way. He should be getting in patient treatment in a medical facility or at least aggressive outpatient psychiatric care.
In psychology, grandiosity is a nonnormative sense of superiority, uniqueness, or invulnerability. It may be expressed by exaggerated beliefs regarding one's abilities, the belief that few other people have anything in common with oneself, and that one can only be understood by a few, very special people. The personality trait of grandiosity is principally associated with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), but also is a feature in the occurrence and expression of antisocial personality disorder, and the manic and hypomanic episodes of bipolar disorder
Few scales exist for the sole purpose of measuring grandiosity, though one recent attempt is the Narcissistic Grandiosity Scale (NGS), an adjective rating scale where one indicates the applicability of a word to oneself (e.g. superior, glorious).
Grandiosity is also measured as part of other tests, including the Personality Assessment for DSM-5 (PID-5), Psychopathy Checklist-Revised, and diagnostic interviews for NPD. The Grandiosity section of the Diagnostic Interview for Narcissism (DIN), for instance, describes:
Grandiose narcissism is a subtype of narcissism with grandiosity as its central feature. Contrary to popular misconception even among psychologists, grandiose narcissism and "narcissistic grandiosity" are not interchangeable terms, with the latter referring to the subject of this article and the former referring to a type narcissism defined by grandiosity as well as social dominance, interpersonal exploitativeness, entitlement, disdainfulness, superficial charm, attention-seeking, and agentic extraversion.
In mania, grandiosity is typically more pro-active and aggressive than in narcissism. The manic character may boast of future achievements: 421 or exaggerate their personal qualities.: 413 & notes
They may also begin unrealistically ambitious undertakings, before being cut down, or cutting themselves back down, to size
Donald Trump is the quintessential example of a person afflicted with this mental illness.
This very clever lady just used Trump's mental illness, the biased courts and people's hatred of him to find in her favor.
I share her and others personal view of the despicable and worsening of Trump's pathological messages and lying but don't let it get in the way of authentic facts and evidence.
"The “Ask E. Jean” columnist is weighing whether to file a new defamation suit against Trump after he dismissed the civil trial as “a rigged deal” and called Carroll a “whack job” during the network appearance, her attorney Roberta Kaplan told the Times."
This has turned into a joke. Is she going to get $1 million every time Trump says something about this?
The fake dress scheme showed to us that she was not credible.
She did press releases to the media with the dress, and a false narrative that it had Donald Trump's DNA on it.
E. Jean Carroll accused Trump of raping her in the 1990s. Now, her lawyers want to test his DNA against a sample found from the dress she wore during the alleged assault.
She didn't compel Trump to submit his DNA, then when Trump tried to submit his DNA, the judge ruled that it was too late and Trumps lawyers were told they couldn't bring up her fake dress DNA scheme.
What person or lawyers with legit DNA evidence would not have used it? This would be 100 times more convincing and indisputable evidence.
And she saved the dress with Trump's DNA for over 2 decades..........THEN didn't use it???
No way that's the truth. There are other crazy things related to the story but that one obliterates her credibility for people that do insightful, critical thinking.
Honestly, if not for the fake dress DNA scheme, I would have believed this lady over Trump because Trump has no credibility.
The jury wasn't allowed to hear anything about the dress, so that explains part of their blind spot. What objective judge would not allow it in with months to go because it was too late??? Indisputable, powerful scientific, physical evidence that trumps everything else in the court room.
Trump initially refused but later changed tactics, offering to provide a sample if Carroll’s legal team turned over the full DNA report on the dress. Kaplan rejected that proposal earlier this year.
Before the trial began, Kaplan barred both sides from “any testimony, argument, commentary or reference concerning DNA evidence.”
Later in the day, Carroll’s lawyer again raised the issue of social media commentary, noting that Trump had made a second remark on his site and that his son Eric Trump had posted a comment on Twitter regarding the fact that Carroll’s lawsuit is partially funded by LinkedIn co-founder and Democratic donor Reid Hoffman. That tweet appears to have since been deleted.
Moments earlier, the judge had ruled that the issue of Hoffman’s financing can’t be used as evidence at trial, although that timing appeared coincidental.
Who's Hoffman? Here's more evidence this was a big hoax. The judge refused to allow this in too!
April 13, 2023 at 2:48 PM CD
"Habba said the financing is concerning because Hoffman has publicly stated his determination to use his money to avoid another Trump presidency. Trump is currently the leading contender for the 2024 Republican nomination.
Hoffman also gave $600,000 to a legal defense fund tied to Fusion GPS, which created a widely criticized report on Trump known as the Steele dossier before the 2016 election, Habba said in her filing.
The late disclosure of Hoffman’s funding for the Carroll case “strikes at the heart of one of the key aspects of plaintiff’s defamation claim,” Habba said. She said that was whether the lawsuit “is a ‘hoax’ that was commenced and/or continued to advance a political agenda."
The MSM wouldn't dare report this authentic evidence because they want to get Trump and even the Trump supporting media can't do it or they will have their reputations tarnished for questioning a rape victim and taking Trump's side.
Trump lies so much that nobody can believe him when he tells the truth. .........even his own people sometimes.
Authentic facts and evidence don't lie. A huge reason that Trump lost is the judge tossed out the exact powerful evidence and facts that show clearly to me that this was a hoax.
Trump has committed numerous crimes but this is NOT one of them.
"Carroll’s legal battle was funded by American Future Republic, a nonprofit group primarily backed by Hoffman, her lawyers disclosed last month."
"After increased attention over his role in Carroll’s case, Hoffman posted on LinkedIn to defend his involvement in the case, describing his commitment to “protecting the rule of law” from the threat of Trump’s “scorched-earth legal methods,” also noting that Trump’s “hostility” to women has been a theme of his ideology for “his entire adult life.”
The funding issue had no bearing on the merits of Carroll's claims, Kaplan said earlier. But, he said in his earlier decision, it could raise questions for jurors about Carroll's credibility since she previously said she had no knowledge of the external funds. Documents related to the litigation funding issue were to be filed under seal, the judge ruled.
Upon reviewing the additional material obtained by Trump's lawyers, Kaplan said it had no bearing on Carroll's credibility, and that the potential risk of causing unfairness to Carroll outweighed whatever minuscule relevance it has in the case.
You're dang right that it would have raised credibility questions and undermined her credibility to the jurors. In a deposition, she LIED about being funded by this democrat billionaire who is out to get Trump. Then, when it was discovered, she claimed to have forgotten about it in her previous sworn deposition and that's why she didn't mention it then.
Of course that would raise credibility issues. Just like the fake dress, DNA scheme would have raised major credibility issues with the jurors.........but the judge banned that too.
I'm not an attorney but would think that Trump has an extremely powerful case to overturn this decision based on this biased judge banning key evidence from the jury that would have destroyed Jean Carroll's credibility.
"She told the jury that she brought the case in an attempt to restore her name."
"As to the appeal, Trump lawyer Joe Tacopina told The Post Thursday: “Judge [Lewis] Kaplan has been overturned once already in Carroll v. Trump” — referring to the pending defamation case in which the judge’s ruling that Trump didn’t have immunity was overturned.
“We are confident it will be twice after this appeal is heard,” Tacopina said. “But what can’t be appealed and won’t be changed is the fact that this was a rape claim from day one and the jury rejected the rape claim even under the lowest standard allowable by law, preponderance of the evidence (or 51%) standard.”
If this was me and I was innocent, this is what I would do.
1. file an appeal like Trump has done. Most people think that guilty people as well as innocent people file appeals But in this case, there is blatant bias against Trump, especially related to rulings from this judge that is clearly out to get trump.
2. insist that the dress, which she claims to have saved and never cleaned for over 25 years, come back into,play and Trump be allowed to submit DNA to compare with what Carroll claims is his DNA on it.
3. insist that the ruling from the judge that any information about funding from the get Trump billionaire not be allowed in for the 9 member jury to hear was clearly biased. Especially in light of her lying in the affidavit about his funding her. She claimed that she just forgot about it. This is why the judge ruled it couldn’t be used…….it would wreck her credibility and be powerful evidence of what trump claims is going on.
4. for Pete’s sake get this moved to anywhere but New York. The people, judges, justice department……almost everybody there have extreme cases of trump derangement syndrome. At the very least bring in an impartial judge that trumps attorneys are ok with.
5. In the current environment of more than half the country hating trump(because of who he is and he deserves it) it’s almost impossible for him to get a fair trial or get treated like anybody else. trump supporters…..this doesn’t mean that trump isnt completely liable and should still be held accountable for trying to illegally overturn the election and for being THE reason and main instigator in the Insurrection Which was NOT a bunch of people with love in their hearts and a beautiful day as trump delusion-ally described it on CNN.
6. our justice system in this country should not be about getting somebody for made up crimes because they got away with other crimes. when you lower your standards to rationalize that this is justice because it balances the rights and wrongs then you lose sight of what’s right and what’s wrong.
2 wrongs don’t make a right. I totally get this line of thinking and in my heart, feel that trump deserves this because of who he is. Howeve, the justice system should be independent of emotions and based on laws, rules, authentic facts and evidence Applied equally to everybody and to each independant case. This happed in the 1990s and has 0 to do with the Insurrection or trumps politics or businesses or other relationships.
7. I’m puzzled why trump has not filed a counter suit against this lady for defamation and filing false charges against him. It’s possible that this is a really bad strategy in a case like this as evidenced by the reaction to trumps claims that this woman was lying……the jury awarded her an EXTRA 3 million dollars of the 5 million for him accusing her of doing this In public And supposedly damaging her reputation.
8. trumps biggest problem in defending himself right now is his severe grandiosity mental illness. In his deposition interview and elsewhere, his responses show that he considers himself to be this omnipotent, infallible person that deserves adoration and recognition for his all powerful greatness.
his attorneys didn’t dare have him testify in this case. Seriously, the man is extremely mentally ill.
one side, that’s feeds his mental illness is in complete denial of this, the other side is also in denial of it being a MEDICAL mental illness that he is unable to control. He should be held accountable for crimes, just like a mentally ill mass shooter and will never get treatment but we should try to recognize severe mental illness here and separate it from criminal intent…..when it comes to 2023 behaviors.
I Realize that I’m spending way too much time on this but it’s exactly this sort of situation which most appeals to my analytical sense, with numerous facts which require some work digging up and interpretations That provides a challenging. Fun experience which can be shared and appreciated.
my latest thought is…….why isn’t Trump squawking about the dress and telling us he has DNA to compare with the DNA on the dress?
pthe answer could be related to their wanting more information about the dress and process before submitting atrumps DNA initially, though she had every legal right to force him to submit it and didn’t.
Ill pass on the details of this solid science later today but it’s extremely easy to transfer somebody’s DNA from one object to another without them knowing and to incriminate them.
It would be pretty easy to obtain an object used by Trump that has his DNA on it and transfer that on to the dress. This is referred to as low level DNA or touch DNA.
if, however she is claiming rape and there was semen involved, which she is….like with Clinton and Lewinsky, than it would be almost impossible to frame an innocent person unless you were his wife or lover and had access to his semen.
Considering the hoops this lady is jumping thru, it’s conceivable that she obtained touch DNA of trumps but this is a speculative stretch on my part, not an assertion.
You will be shocked to read stories about how peoples DNA got inadvertently transferred to crime scenes that they had no connection to.
Started by metmike - May 13, 2023, 3:02 p.m.