more surprising Covid19 data...
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Started by GunterK - July 24, 2021, 9:28 a.m.

We reported Covid19 statistics out of Israel before, because this country has a longer history with the Delta variant than the US.   At that time, half of their cases were vaccinated people, half were unvaccinated people.


Here is the latest…

I am not making any comments about it….. only reporting the data….

In Israel,143 patients are in hospitals diagnosed with Covid19.

Of those, 58% are fully vaccinated, 3% are partially vaccinated, and 39% are unvaccinated.

While the case numbers are higher for vaccinated people than for unvaccinated people, the number of patients requiring ventilators is higher for unvaccinated people.. out of 12 patients on ventilators, 3 are fully vaccinated.

This situation reverses again, when fatalities are counted:

Out of 20 patients who died of Covid19 this month, 15 were vaccinated.

https://www.jpost.com/health-science/coronavirus-in-israel-what-do-we-know-about-the-143-hospitalized-people-674508

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By mcfarmer - July 24, 2021, 9:36 a.m.
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From the article:


“Of the country’s 64 serious patients, including 17 in critical condition, there were 12 who were being invasively ventilated. However, while the percentage of vaccinated cases was high, the percentage of those who require invasive treatment was low: Only three fully vaccinated people were being invasively ventilated.


Also, only two people were connected to an ECMO external oxygenation machine, and neither of them were vaccinated.”


I don’t think 154 cases make for a reliable study, for either side.

By TimNew - July 24, 2021, 10:25 a.m.
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That is  a pretty small sample.

By hayman - July 24, 2021, 1 p.m.
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.

By GunterK - July 24, 2021, 1:30 p.m.
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Here is another small country.. Singapore (pop. 5.7 mill)

Singapore has vaccinated 75% (!!! ) of its people…

Again… small numbers of cases..

Headline: 75% of new cases are vaccinated people

During the last 28 days, 1096 new cases were registered, with 44% coming from fully vaccinated people, 30% coming from partially vaccinated people, and only a bit more than 25% of them coming from unvaccinated people.

Unlike the israel report above, which refers to hospitalized cases, the numbers in Singapore refers to PCR test results.

The good news is that most of these cases were mild or asymptomatic. Only 8 cases were serious. (if you read this article carefully, it becomes clear that these 8 serious cases were all patients with only one shot)

Either way, these numbers clearly point out that there is no such thing as a 96% efficacy against the Delta.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/vaccinated-people-singapore-make-up-three-quarters-recent-covid-19-cases-2021-07-23/

These data are similar to the data from the Israel report of a few weeks ago, when Israel was 57% vaccinated

The message:  the Delta doesn’t care whether you are vaccinated or not.


By GunterK - July 24, 2021, 1:43 p.m.
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thank you hayman.  I find the 3rd link a most remarkable collection of treatments.

I am sure, if you posted this on one of the social media, you would be banned for life. 

Thank you for trying to help us all.




By mcfarm - July 24, 2021, 4:09 p.m.
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well I want you to know our President has some awesome advisors and is married to a very well known Doctor. And our President proudly state if you are vaccinated you cannot get covid.

By GunterK - July 24, 2021, 5:36 p.m.
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To make the data out of Singapore clearer…

In Singapore, 75% are vaccinated… 25% are unvaccinated.

Let’ssay you take a random sample of 100 Singapore residents and blow the virus up their nose.

The 25 unvaccinated ones should be immediately infected and test as positive.

Of the 75 vaccinated one, 96% should be protected. Meaning: 75 times 0.04 = 3  shouldl be infected

The ratio of the given sample should have been 3 : 25, not 75 : 25

In other words, the efficacy of the vaxx is zero percent, for this data sample.

(if my math is false, I welcome a correction)

Well, as mcfarmer and timnew stated… small countries, small sample size. This maybe not meaningfull… but the explanation could also be that it’s the Delta, that messes up all the nice data we were used to hearing in the past.

*************

Pfizer has indirectly already admitted defeat… from a “don’t worry, you are 96% protected”, we are now down to getting a booster shot.

Think about that…. 2 shots of Pfizer are not working, when the Delta is involved.  Now they are fixing the problem by giving you a 3rd shot of the same stuff that is not working…. Smart move!!! (sarcasm intended)

My prediction: there will 4th and 5th and 6th and [XXX] booster shots, until the virus dies down by itself.. and then the Vaxx companies will take all the credit.

By metmike - July 24, 2021, 10:47 p.m.
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"To make the data out of Singapore clearer…

In Singapore, 75% are vaccinated… 25% are unvaccinated.

Let’ssay you take a random sample of 100 Singapore residents and blow the virus up their nose.

The 25 unvaccinated ones should be immediately infected and test as positive.

Of the 75 vaccinated one, 96% should be protected. Meaning: 75 times 0.04 = 3  shouldl be infected

The ratio of the given sample should have been 3 : 25, not 75 : 25

In other words, the efficacy of the vaxx is zero percent, for this data sample.

(if my math is false, I welcome a correction)"


Exactly...................WRONG again Gunter. Why do you continue to ignore the science and repeat the same wrong statements over and over and over after I correct you with the correct information.


    Vaccines highly effective against hospitalisation from Delta variant  

            

New analysis by PHE shows for the first time that 2 doses of COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective against hospitalisation from the Delta (B.1.617.2) variant.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vaccines-highly-effective-against-hospitalisation-from-delta-variant

The analysis suggests:

  •   
  • the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is 96% effective against hospitalisation after 2 doses
  •   
  • the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is 92% effective against hospitalisation after 2 doses

These are comparable with vaccine effectiveness against hospitalisation from the Alpha variant.

Further work remains underway to establish the level of protection against mortality from the Delta variant. However, as with other variants, this is expected to be high.

The analysis included 14,019 cases of the Delta variant – 166 of whom were hospitalised – between 12 April and 4 June, looking at emergency hospital admissions in England.


metmike: I just got done crystal clear clarifying this to you just 2 days ago and you continue to post the opposite of the truth............the opposite of the science..................the opposite of the facts here Gunter...............and immediately after I spent much time correcting you.

Why are you doing this?

It's become obvious that you are not just being a troll. You appear to be trying to convince people of things that are just NOT true.  Things that are resulting in people not getting vaccinated which is, without  question causing thousands of additional COVID infections and hundreds of deaths, potentially thousands of deaths. 


Has your cognitive bias and wanting to believe anti government, anti Biden, anti science, anti Fauci, anti COVID vaccine stuff, pro Trump stuff  dumbed you down to a level so obtuse and brainwashed that it won't allow authentic facts to reach your brain............instead you make up your own "Gunter Science" and "Gunter Facts" to distort the meaning of actual facts/numbers...............intentionally making up your own, like you did above?

This is no mistake or oversight by you anymore............you are doing it intentionally over and over and over. Ignoring all the authentic science and legit facts correcting your crapola.

 Gunter, you were once a pretty objective person and when you posted about something that was unusual and not mainstream, I would think..........ok, it's Gunter, I better check it out because he's a very smart guy and he's found a couple of crazy things in the past that actually were true. 

Now, after dozens of posts by you that have the science on COVID and the vaccine exactly wrong but you keep going on and on and on, insisting that YOU are right and its me, the scientist practicing the scientific method that has it all wrong.  What in the world do you expect me to think?

You are doing this to yourself Gunter. What has happened to your ability to comprehend objective facts/science?

Do you really think that on one of these posts I'm going to suddenly see your points and go. "Wow, Gunter was right about this all along!"

We don't know everything about COVID and  the vaccine and FOR SURE some of the things they tell us are not right and will get adjusted. But that's not what you are doing. 

You are not saying they might be off by X amount or displaying healthy skepticism for me to investigate. hav

You are stating things that much more indisputable wrong...........by a much wider margin than the things that you claim are wrong.

And are trying to pass them off as being totally right. 


You are using uncertainty about a new realm.........which is decreasing as we learn more and more and using previous misinformation or wrong information to trick people into not believing accurate, scientific, new and proven information.

Actually, that's exactly what is being used on you. They are targeting anybody that actually believes all of this. 

Please,, stop letting them use you like this Gunter! 


https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/72542/

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/71895/

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/72388/


https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/68875/#72614


https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/72252/#72346

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/72252/#72348

By metmike - July 24, 2021, 11:08 p.m.
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Vaccine doubters’ strange fixation with Israel

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/07/19/vaccine-skeptics-zero-israel-again-some-reason/


From the start of the worldwide coronavirus vaccination campaign, the anti-vaccine movement and vaccine skeptics picked an unfortunate case study: Israel. The country shot to the lead of the pack with an aggressive vaccination cam


The more vaccinated a population, the more we’ll hear of the vaccinated getting infected. For example, say there’s a community that’s 100% vaccinated. If there’s transmission, we know breakthrough cases will happen. So, by definition, 100% of outbreak cases will be among the vaccinated. It will just be 100% out of a smaller number.Cue Israel. They are one of the global leaders in vaccinations; 85% of Israeli adults are vaccinated. So, say we have the following scenario:...With an infection rate among the vaccinated of 2% and infection rate of 13% among the unvaccinated, this would give us an efficacy rate of 85%.https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/NJDPAJZ3ENHBRNSEBIDSS5KFXQ.PNG&w=916

The most important numbers to consider, though, are not the overall case rates, but rather the serious cases. And those, too, remain extremely low — even lower than the case rates, relatively speaking.

Israel is averaging about 120 weekly hospital admissions, which is down from a peak of nearly 2,000 in January. So while cases are less than one-tenth of what they were then, hospitalizations are about one-sixteenth. And admissions to the intensive care unit are about one-twentieth, according to data collected by the University of Oxford.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/7G65QKGXVBHPVJ3K32NKU6DY54.PNG&w=916
Hospitalization rate in Israel (Aaron Blake/Our World in Data)
It’s true that most new cases are coming from the vaccinated community, but that’s in large part because of how relatively big that community is in Israel. The latest numbers show that 85 percent of Israeli adults are vaccinated, meaning there are more than five times as many of them as unvaccinated people.


All told, Israeli government data show the Pfizer vaccine is indeed significantly less effective at preventing coronavirus cases of the delta variant (64 percent) than it was for previous variants (95 percent). It’s also significantly less effective at preventing symptomatic cases (64 percent vs. 97 percent). But it performs much more similarly when it comes to preventing serious cases and hospitalization (93 percent vs. 97.5 percent).


Image

By mcfarm - July 25, 2021, 8:05 a.m.
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MM, everybody has heard the term "junk in junk out" seems this covid stat business is one area that the "science and the stats" are being thrown around so foolishly that nobody knows what to believe. Of course much of this goes right to the door step of Fauci, WHO, and politicians. Often times you use positive test results in your posts. Seems simple enough. Problem is even something as simple as a positive is in error or many times when 96% or so {who knows stats again} have no illness at all with covid it means little. Do I remember Elon Musk being worried about covid and got several tests and got several tests with varying results? Man if one of the richest guys on eath cannot know for sure what chance do I have?

So every time a real fool like for instance the guy who should have the very latest "science" every minute of every  day {our President} cannot get it right from day to day what chance do we have?

Or is the truth nobody really knows so those in power run out every day and just throw crap towards the blackboard {can we still say blackboard I wonder and not get cancelled?} to maintain the false narrative that they have this thing under control and if all us sheep just accept and never question things we work out?

I particularly like what someone said here { maybe Gunter} that we would be forced to take dose numbers 3,4,5 and6 and then we might be exactly where nature would of taken us in the first place. 

Mother nature is no fool, humans are

By metmike - July 25, 2021, 9:15 a.m.
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I totally get that you don’t know who/what to believe because the lies about COVID have been numerous And often politically motivated and anti scientific.

When back at my computer, I’ll give you a sample of the countless lies that I exposed/proved. In the last year +. That you will agree 100% on. I exposed them when the MSM and others were telling the lies.


Do you think that I suddenly sold out and became a traitor and am now supporting the lies I was dedicated to exposing for so long?

Of course not. I just DO KNOW what to believe based on the science and facts and dozens of hours of Stu dying it as a scientist I don’t know everything but I will never pretend to know something that I don’t know.


Now we see people all upset about needing boosters.

WTheck. Did you actually think the protection would be forever?

Who told you that?


I never heard of people upset that they had to get an annual flue shot. It’s been accepted for numerous decades.

The flu was never made political and the politics on COVID are being used by both sides.

I’m just an objective non political scientist telling you the science.

One side got ticked off at me when I exposed their lies. Now the other side is upset because I’m showing all of their lies.

You do realize that these people are intentionally targeting you and using you for their political agenda?

That was rhetorical.

You don’t owe them your allegiance. Take back your right to know the truth and reject their attempts to control you with lies!



By GunterK - July 25, 2021, 3:20 p.m.
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metmike, my final post on this matter

From the very beginning of the pandemic, there was evidence that our government agencies used this virus to further their agenda, when they urged their doctors to commit fraud.. They even went so far as to disallow information about life-saving medication.

This set the stage for everything to come. These agencies no longer were the source of honest, scientific information. It was an “us vs. them” situation. And this situation carried over into the vaccine era.

So I had to educate myself. I listened to top notch experts…. They included numerous virologists,the inventor of the PCR test, a scientist with 30 years experience dealing with mRNA, the CEO of a vaccine company, an exVP of Pfizer, etc etc.. and I learned a lot.

I was dismayed about how the opinions of these top experts could beconsidered cr*p, B.S.

They all had concerns about the mRNA procedure, and many of their concerns are already materializing..

Their comments did not match the soothing daily propaganda, like “the vaccines are safe”,

First of all, the “vaccines” are not really “vaccines”… they are “DNA therapy” And DNA therapy can do all kind of nasty things to humans (and there have been plenty of examples so far).

Secondly, they cannot be called “safe”, until they have been tested and used without problems for 2-3 years.

These are truths that cannot be denied.

It seems, every time I talked about these experts, or I posted data contradicting the propaganda, it was called cr*p, or B.S., and I was accused of being brainwashed.

And your reply always was that you had “authentic” information and often showed graphs to prove me wrong..

I often asked myself, where does your “authentic” data come from. Who is compiling and manipulating this information?… do they have an agenda?  And why is your information more ‘authentic” then the comments of the experts I had been listening to?

Recently, I have stopped posting about new things I have learned, to avoid all the confrontation here… and I started posting simple statistics that should make our readers think for themselves.

For example, a few days ago I posted about Cape Cod experiencing an outbreak that affected “mostly vaccinated” people. This article most certainly is in stark contrast to the daily propaganda.

So far, I have seen no valid comment explaining (or debunking) this piece of statistic.

In this current thread I pointed out that new cases in Singapore show that the vaxx is not working at all

So far, this has not been explained, nor was it “debunked”.

Your recent comment above focus on “hospitalizations”, rather than “cases”…. showing improvement.

When the Delta first appeared, virologists predicted that it would spread much more quickly, but not have the same serious effects as the old Covid19..

So, is the improved hospitalization rate due to the vaxx, or is this simply part of the evolution of this virus?

Covid19 started rapidly dwindling since early January… a time, when hardly anybody was vaccinated. Is it not possible that the virus started losing its strength on its own? Yet, we are being told that it’s the vaxx that is saving us.  Is it really???

You posted a Forbes link that shows 3 graphs which have not much to do with this discussion, but, at least, the writer admits that the efficacy of the vaxx is only 64%. (in Israel)

When I wrote my first post about Israel, a while back, the country was 57% vaccinated, and at that time, hospital admissions were evenly spread between vaccinated and unvaccinated. (this tells you a story right there!!)

However, according to the Forbes writer, the vaxx is still 93% efficient in preventing hospitalization.  But then he writes “…It’s true that most new cases [hospital cases] are coming from the vaccinated community, but that’s in large part because of how relatively big that community is in Israel. The latest numbers show that 85 percent of adult Israelis war vaccinated.”

First of all, when you do the math, you cannot have a 93% efficacy, when the “majority” of cases are vaccinated people.

Secondly, a quick google check shows that Israeli vaccination is 58.5% as of today, not 93%.

Therefore, this Forbes article is a piece of “misinformation”, used to counter my thoughts.

*****

A few years ago, I got my flu shot, while my wife did not.   I thought, no problem… should she catch the flu, I am protected and have nothing to worry about, and I can easily take care of her.

Not so in 2021…

Right now they have whipped the sheep into a fever pitch. “pandemic of the unvaccinated”, “the unvaccinated are killing us, they should be locked up”. And the sheep forget that they are vaccinated… they should have nothing to worry about when they encounter an unvaccinated person (unless they subconsciously know that the vaxx is not working)

At the same time, they are quietly being reminded that vaccinated people can be infected and infect other vaccinated people. Using a 90-96% efficacy, a crowd of 100 vaccinated people could easily contain 10 infected carriers who infect other vaccinated people in that crowd..

Oh…that “has to be expected”, they tell us. “It’s normal bleed through”.  But that healthy unvaccinated guy over there.. he is killing us, let’s beat him up.

*******

I don’t want to be a crusader in this war of information and misinformation.

The information I have gathered over the last few months, comes from true experts in their field….

And most importantly, these experts have no political agenda… professionals who are sincerely concerned about the well-being of people.

On the other side however, there are many groups who want to further their agenda, by misleading us, making us afraid, getting us used to lockdowns, forced vaccinations, vaccine passports.

It’s the “new normal”, they say.  The New World Order… a new world where eventually one tyrannical government, under the leadership of the UN, controls humanity.

And they have the power to show us their “authentic science”, and call every opposing opinion cr*p

It seems to me, the fight is over, just like it is over for those scientists who deny the “Climate Emergency”.

The combined forces of the UN, the CDC, the pharmaceutical companies,, the Bill Gates types, the social media, the NWO guys,etc… are too powerful for anyone to oppose.

Hey, they even had a 16 year-old girl at one of their meetings, telling us all to get vaccinated… just like Greta.

Right now, a group of doctors have filed a law suit, claiming they have proof that the CDC/VAERS publishes false information, and that, since December, the vaxx has killed some 45,000 people within 3 days of vaccination. .

Does anyone really believe that they can win against their powerful opponent? No way.

Again, I don’t want to be crusader in this mess… I only wanted to share this information with our forum friends. I hate to see our friends being misled by the misinformation coming from our leaders. Our lives are at risk.

I am done!

By GunterK - July 25, 2021, 3:25 p.m.
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One more graph, in passing.

As we all know, India was hit really hard a while back… the Delta Variant.

And look, how they are doing today… not bad, eh?

Did you know that India is less than 7 % vaccinated.

How did they manage all this, without vaxx????

Think about it!!!!