The Ga Senate hearing. 6+ hours.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1291473484556883&id=414280728767306
IMO, most of the testimony is highly indicative of irregularities, but inconclusive. The damning evidence is all within the first 30 minutes. The video I posted earlier is part of that.
we don't need no stinking video, we don't need more recounts. We can recount the same diseased pile of votes time and time again and then declare we were right all along. Kind of like playing cards with a cheat who has put several aces or deuces in a deck of cards and says over and over....count them there are 52 cards...shut up sit down you sheep
I've not commented on this for the past day+, while waiting to spend more time viewing this evidence.
Up until this point, my impression is that they have been slinging as much mud as possible in all directions, hoping that some of it will stick.
They got some serious mud to stick here, which requires much more investigating and answers. I've tried to keep an open mind the past month and it appears to be letting in some evidence of voter fraud that is potentially systemic and enough to affect the results in the state of GA.
If you disagree with that, then you have NOT watched this video.
Previous discussion on this:
in case after case the Trump lawyers are using what we call legal documents...ie...affidavits, signed under penalty of perjury and jail. Wow..Slinging mud you say??? Don't really see that as the female host on fox found out this morning from none other that Bill Bennet. After he finished with that young lady she wished she had never embarrassed herself.
I'm a bit late to the party admittedly. Only just a couple of hours ago, I first saw the Fulton County, GA, "suitcasegate" video convincingly presented by Jacki Pick at that GA hearing. It was so convincingly done that my first reaction was "uh oh", this looks very fishy, and that I wanted to admit that here. However, since then I have changed my mind due to looking at more info.
Pick showed 11 PM footage (after almost all had left supposedly after they were asked to go by a "woman with blonde braids" who then stayed to help count ballots) showing containers with assumed ballots suspiciously being brought out from under the table followed by them being scanned between then and 1 AM. She then showed that that table had been brought in the prior morning at 8:22 AM supposedly by the "woman with the blonde braids" with nothing immediately placed under it. But Pick also said that she needed to look at the hours afterward to see how those ballots got under the table.
Then I saw what is at these two links:
1. Link: WSB Debunks 'Smoking Gun' Ballot Box Video Giuliani Pushed (mediaite.com)
This link's video includes Gabriel Sterling, a Republican and Georgia's voting system implementation manager, saying that they went through many hours of the footage.
From this:
"Georgia election investigator Frances Watson elaborated on what the full video revealed.
'We can show. yeah exactly when [the ballot boxes] were placed under there,' she pointed out.
'If we go back in the video hours before, you can see that table being brought into the room at 8:22 a.m. Nothing underneath. No hidden suitcases. Then we can see at 10:00p.m., with a room full of people, including official monitors in the media, as ballots that have been opened but not counted are placed in the boxes sealed up and stored under the table,' Gray reported.
Sterling also shot down Giuliani’s distorted misinformation.
'No magical appearing ballots, these were ballots that were processed in front of monitors,' he explained. 'These are just typical everyday election workers who were just doing their jobs. I mean, it’s not like this is an Oceans 11-level scheme has put together in the middle of the night.'"
Where did I find this link? Not from a Dem, but from none other than a tweet from very conservative Republican Erick Erickson:
From the Fact Check link that Erickson provided:
"Gabriel Sterling, a Republican and Georgia's voting system implementation manager, told Lead Stories during a phone call on December 3, 2020 that what can be seen on the video is normal procedure and nothing looks 'bizarre or odd.'
Election workers known as 'cutters' because their job was to open absentee ballot envelopes and verify ballots for eventual scanning and counting were dismissed for the night sometime after 10 p.m. on November 3, 2020, because their work for the evening had been completed, he explained. Those workers who remained were responsible for conducting the scanning portion of the process, since ballots could not be left without being scanned overnight."
Per chief investigator Francis Watson:
"Nobody told them to stay. Nobody told them to leave. Nobody gave them any advice on what they should do. And It was still open for them or the public to come back in to view at whatever time they wanted to, as long as they were still working."
and
"she explained that the only ballots that were scanned after the media and other observers had left were those that had already been opened in front of these observers."
"Lead Stories" is classified as least biased and using a very high level of factual reporting.
Lead Stories - Media Bias/Fact Check
After seeing the info from these last two links, which are 100% supported by conservative Republicans like Erick Erickson and Gabriel Sterling, I no longer think fraud may have been committed in this case as it has been totally debunked.
you ever heard of "chain of custody? You ever heard of ballot security? You most definitely know nothing about signature verification as you have been corrected no less than 3 times for that error. Why don't you just quit parsing and explain once and for all why you are so dead set against a fair and free vote? Explain why you would allow cheating some out of their constitutional rights by allowing another to cheat? Why this country can spend over 3 years on a lie to first destroy a man's candidacy and then his Presidency but know we cannot take a month to fix this mess? Maybe Venezuela is better suited for your beliefs and behavior if you cannot answer simple questions like these. And after you decide please tell just how much cheating should libs be allowed? A little? A lot? Why not a huge amount? Exactly how much cheating is good with you?
I watched the video. Ballots were pulled from under a table and counted. Workers were told to leave and that counting would resume in the morning. There are sworn affidavits to that effect.
If you are that interested, I posted a link to the entire Ga Senate hearing conducted on Thursday. It's 6 hours of some very compelling testimony.
Tim,
You're ignoring just about everything I said. The ballots under the table had already been opened and monitored by those known as "cutters". After the cutters finished with these and the monitors saw them, they were put in the bins for scanning (counting). They can't be left there without then counting them. The ones that left were the cutters because their job was done for the night. The ones left behind were the scanners, who then needed to do their job.
Here it is from Erick Erickson, the solid conservative Georgia Republican whom you, a solid conservative, likely agree with more often than I, a moderate conservative would on issues. He explains like I did why there's almost definitely nothing to "suitcasegate":
https://twitter.com/i/status/1335009884090281987
I don't know about you, but my #1 concern right now is for the GOP to maintain control of the Senate. Trump's stupid rhetoric about corrupt GA conservative Republicans is making that more difficult. He's a very selfish man.
There's a lot of BS being peddled about corrupt GA GOP election officials that has even lead to death threats. This f'ckin BS needs to stop now!! In that regard, Trump is an outright f'kin danger
More from far right Erick Erickson:
Yep, it takes away from your credibility, which will be very hard to get back.
try this for real, if true that is. those ballots found under the table were said today to total 148,000 for Biden and 7000 for Trump. Affidavits form other battle ground states show if more shocking 100,000 to Biden and zero...that's right zero for Trump. Eric must of missed this and nearly a thousand other affidavits.
I'm sorry you feel a need to question my credbility.
Setting that aside.
"Nobody told them to stay. Nobody told them to leave. Nobody gave them any advice on what they should do. And It was still open for them or the public to come back in to view at whatever time they wanted to, as long as they were still working."
This is patently false. Workers were told to leave and that counting would resume in the morning. A "Pipe Burst" required the operation be held pending repairs. What they had was an inconsequential toilet leak far away from operations. There are dozens of afidavits to that effect. Also, they halted counting when people returned at about 1 am, per testimony and video coverage.
"she explained that the only ballots that were scanned after the media and other observers had left were those that had already been opened in front of these observers."
This is also false based on afidavits.
I posted a 6 hour video of the GA senate hearing. Did you watch? It contradicts the opinions of the "extreme conservatives" you linked.
"she explained that the only ballots that were scanned after the media and other observers had left were those that had already been opened in front of these observers."
This is also false based on afidavits."
Regardless of affidavids, WeatherFollower was able to give us the answer to the one huge question that I had about this.
Which was........Where did the containers(referred to as suitcases from the accuser, which makes me not trust the source calling them that because they wanted people to think that they were snuck in from the outside vs just being regular containers filled with already opened ballots, waiting to be run thru the machines) come from.
Those perfectly legit containers were filled with already opened... while poll watchers witnessed it earlier....... perfectly legit ballots waiting to be run thru the machines.
The discrepancy over whether there was a burst pipe or an overflowing toilet means exactly zero. We have the entire thing on tape............now, including where those ballots came from which the accuser, conveniently did not tell us and dishonestly referred to as suitcases.
This is why I think its actually a good thing to encourage you guys to post your speculative theories and purported evidence of fraud here and open mindedly consider it.
If it's legit, then the evidence will show it, if it's not legit, then the evidence will not show it. In the events where its not legit and the evidence actually shows that but the sources have twisted circumstances (or in other situations, like in MI and WI where its based on blatantly false information that I showed to be false) than it obliterates the credibility of those sources.
Mucho thanks to Larry for providing the smoking gun evidence here that shows no fraud.
This is another example of mud slinging using a creative strategy that sounds convincing if you don't have all the evidence. Then, when the evidence comes in.............it proves to be false.
Every time this happens, I'm a little bit less likely to believe the next allegation.
Do you guys not recognize what WxFollower and metmike are saying about this one? Your inability to process the facts which conclusively bust the case for fraud after they are presented on this one, tells us where your frame of mind is coming from.
On most of these, there will be no camera's to bust the case for fraud like cameras taping from earlier in the day did on this one. If you continue to believe in fraud after it was busted conclusively on numerous occasions here, you are just pawns being manipulated by one side that has captured your brains and convinced you to believe everything they say.
This previous statement becomes more relevant as we go along:
the election.... "death by a thousand cuts"
Started by GunterK - Dec. 3, 2020, 1:10 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62128/
I am going to use whats going on here as a lesson for people to help them decide on the truth in realms that they can't know themselves, other than to just read stories and statements from opposing sources.
If one entity/group is claiming that something happened and the other entity/group is claiming the exact opposite happened, and you were not there to witness it, how do you decide who to believe?
You look at their many statements. If one of those entities repeats numerous statements that end up being proven blatantly false beyond a shadow of a doubt, as I did myself in the thread above.........then you can't trust anything they state. If they lie to you about things that you can prove are huge lies, why would you believe other things that you can't prove are lies?
But it is possible that in telling a ton of lies, there could be a few truths in there. Since their credibility was shot from telling the lies(about the election results), it means you need the evidence to prove when they are telling the truth.
That would even be the case if they didn't lie to begin with here on the election fraud but now we have the history of verified lies from the accusers, which should just make any objective mind extremely skeptical of increasingly far fetched accusations that continue to have no evidence to show anything other than the usual isolated incidents of fraud and human errors......that happen during every election.
Again, my mind has been wide open to seeing that evidence for a month now. Show it and I will acknowledge it and post it from the MarketForum rooftops.
I've reviewed everything available for the video and have to conceed that the video is not "the smoking gun" I originally thought it to be. Mea Culpa.
The additional testimony before the Ga Senate certainly indicates a strong possibility of irregularities, but IMO, nothing conclusive.
So while I still strongly suspect wrong doing, there is no "there" there. Nothing that can be proved. We can't overturn an election on supposition.
I do think it's a shame we can impeach a president on supposition, but that has no bearing on this case.
Tim,
It takes good character to admit something like this. Kudos! Your credibility from my perspective has suddenly been restored. <g>
I know you’re not even close to saying there definitely was no wrongdoing here. But you just admitting that there is nothing conclusive about this is significant.
Even I thought there may have been something to “suitcase-gate” when I first saw Ms. Pick’s presentation as it was quite convincing. But after hearing from the GOP election officials and then Erick Erickson, I decided there wasn’t anything to it. I just wish Trump would stop pushing it.
Also, I want to thank Mike for his thoughts.
Tremendous thanks to WxFollower and Tim for demonstrating how mature adults can use facts and evidence to (overcome cognitive bias for one person) and initial, misleading information for both people.
Even better was coming from a brief period of complete disagreement to agreeing on this particular situation. The natural tendency for people is to decide they are right and defend their positions
I am very proud of you guys. This belongs in post of the week.
Tim,
I also agree with you that there has been enough fraud in this election, that an objective mind needs to pay attention to all of these complaints, even though many end up baseless because this is the only way we will identify the legit ones.
And identifying the legit ones is the best way to take corrective measures.
“That thing has taken the life of his own. There was a water, actually, there was a leak. The floor above where we were counting ballots at State Farm Arena, according to Steve Koonin, CEO of Atlanta Hawks,” he said.
“And it was repaired within two hours. No ballots were damaged. No equipment was damaged. End of story. So how this has gotten to be what it is, I have no idea.”
metmike: It got this way because one side twisted it like a pretzel to make it look like it was being used as an excuse to get poll watchers to leave so that they could sneak thru ballots that had been snuck in via "suitcases" without being observed. When sources make up crap like this, it makes me not want to believe anything from them...........including stuff that is probably legit.
So, I just heard that an emergency GA General Assembly meeting has been requested. You know what? As long as all sides would be represented, including the Gov, Lt. Gov, Sec of State and elections investigators, I hope they have it and also hope it is televised. I'd rather they go ahead and have it so they can have folks on all sides discuss it out in the open so it can finally be put to bed, whichever way they go, for those willing to accept the results. It would make for an interesting and hopefully useful session. Who here would be opposed to that? There's nothing wrong with people on all sides getting together and discussing. It sure beats trying to figure out whether or not any fringe internet sites are being factual. Let's do this! Anyone here disagree?
100% Larry, agree if its all free and fair.....but heard they have already certified the vote so don't know if what you heard is possible...kind of like the case in Pa where everyone agrees the dems changed the rules illegally and without the state legislature participating but now they say...too bad, too late, repubs get screwed again
I would be in favor of TV for GA
What I would be more in favour of is this:
Let the Supreme Court hear arguments from all sides. The Supreme Court operates in such a fashion so that all arguments are presented to the Supreme Court in what is called a brief. One has to present a brief that is very clear and truthful or the Court will dismiss immediately. If accepted then what is the argument all about, which is what is included in the brief presented to the court, in writing.
Then staff or clerks review these briefs and write their opinion to which ever justice they work for. I think the legal staff are called clerks. This is why it is referred to as such and such clerked for justice Roberts
The justice reviews their own clerks opinions and makes personal notations to their clerks to re-write until the Justice is satisfied the clerks have presented arguments according to their personal opinion. Clerks may not agree in the original opinion to the Justice, thus the Justice has an opportunity to read different views of the question, but eventually the justice opinion becomes clear to their own clerks and then everybody tries to make a strong presentation to the Justice, including justice his/her thoughts for later, when majority counts
Anything the Justice do not think was clear in the original briefs are what is asked during oral arguments, and answered by who ever is asked to answer the justice oral question. The justice may be looking for the meaning of one single word and will stop oral answers at any time the justice has an answer or is clear will not get an answer. Thus justice often stop oral answers in mid sentence. They don't have time for 9 justice to hear individual speeches, asked by more than one justice on individual questions
Then the justices get together and decide the outcome by majority vote
Then their is the majority presented and the dissenting presented
Majority wins and this is how I understand from my reading of the Supreme Court and how they arrive at decisions. It is an extensive process and both sides are usually presented to individual justices by their own clerks, until a decision is finally reached
They don't accept all petitions to the Supreme Court
While I agree with the GA TV I think the Supreme Court is much better structured to arrive at decisions than decisions by lower law court rulings. The lower courts have to operate in much different circumstances due to the over whelming numbers of law suits every yr
But in important issues the Supreme Court is structured to give much more in depth attention to conflicting arguments and review by the structure of the court and more than one person making decisions, which is needed for very important questions and decisions
remember wayne we are all about state rights.....the feds only have limited rights all others reserved for individual states. The state legislatures ultimately have the deciding power but in this year with several hundred changes in various states that went around the state legislatures we have the ultimate mess
Great point on states and following the Constitution mcfarm!
If you are all about state rights and I have read other arguments that agree, then this has to happen
Your state elections will decide future presidential elections
In the future it will be more important to out bid with the most good currency, the other side, to gain control of the Dominion machines
Is that how you want presidential elections decided
Even state elections will need the most money to gain control of the Dominion machines
Or do you think the country will ban the Dominion machines like Texas did???
I think money will decide elections as long as there are Dominion machines. It used to be money bought politicians, votes etc. Now I believe it is all about the Dominion machines
Voters will have lost all control of the country
I have read where the elite will control and now I believe the elite have won
I expect our country is the same as far as elite control
None of us on MF count for anything, but our own little make believe world
Really sad but I believe it is true
It is my understanding that some law suits have succeeded in convincing judges to allow forensic audits of the Dominion machines
How does this affect states rights if the machines are proven fraudulent but the state or election committee certifies Biden as the winner regardless of forensic evidence, because they have already done so and don't want to do different for what ever reason
"It is my understanding that some law suits have succeeded in convincing judges to allow forensic audits of the Dominion machines"
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62373/
https://www.dominionvoting.com/election2020-setting-the-record-straight/
Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger (R) recertified the results of the state’s presidential election on Monday after a recount completed last week reaffirmed President-elect Joe Biden’s victory.
“It’s been 34 days since the election on Nov. 3,” Raffensperger said at a news conference at the Georgia Capitol earlier in the day. “We have now counted legally cast ballots three times and the results remain unchanged.”
The recertification of the results amounted to a major blow to President Trump’s efforts to overturn the results of the presidential race. Trump has repeatedly refused to acknowledge his loss to Biden and has falsely claimed that the election outcome was marred by widespread voter fraud and systemic irregularities.
But the recount in Georgia — the state’s second in a matter of weeks — confirmed once again that Biden beat Trump by roughly 12,000 votes, making him the first Democratic presidential candidate in nearly three decades to carry the traditionally Republican-leaning state.
The recertification of the election results came on the same day that a federal judge tossed out a lawsuit filed by conservative attorney Sydney Powell that sought to overturn Biden’s victory in Georgia. Raffensperger touted the dismissal and the vote certification as win, saying in a statement that his state could now move past the election drama.
“Today is an important day for election integrity in Georgia and across the country,” Raffensperger said. “The claims in the Kraken lawsuit prove to be as mythological as the creature for which they’re named. Georgians can now move forward knowing that their votes, and only their legal votes, were counted accurately, fairly, and reliably.”
Raffensperger, who has forcefully defended the integrity of the presidential election in Georgia, reiterated on Monday that while state investigators are still looking into some allegations of illegal voting, there is no evidence of widespread fraud or malfeasance.
To suggest otherwise, he said, is harmful to the state of Georgia.
“All this talk of a stolen election, whether it’s Stacey Abrams or the president of the United States, is hurting our state,” Raffensperger said at the news conference, referring to the former Democratic gubernatorial candidate who did not concede the 2018 governor’s race to Gov. Brian Kemp (R) after falling short in the vote count.
Raffensperger’s announcement that he would recertify his state’s election results came a day before the Dec. 8 safe harbor deadline, the federal deadline by which states must resolve all election-related disputes. The Electoral College is scheduled to meet on Dec. 14 to formally choose Biden as the next president.
Despite the coming deadline, Trump has continued his push to overturn the election results. On Friday, his campaign filed a challenge to the election in Georgia, asking a state court to vacate the certification of the presidential election results and order a new vote in the state. Trump also called Kemp on Saturday to demand that he call a special session of the Georgia General Assembly in an effort to overturn the election results. Kemp rebuffed the president’s demand, saying in a joint statement with Lt. Gov. Geoff Duncan (R) on Monday that using the legislature to override the state’s election processes would violate the law.
“Any attempt by the legislature to retroactively change that process for the November 3rd election would be unconstitutional and immediately enjoined by the courts, resulting in a long legal dispute and no short-term resolution,” Kemp and Duncan said.
“The judicial system remains the only viable – and quickest – option in disputing the results of the November 3rd election in Georgia.”
some more on that suitcase that was pulled out from a hiding place....
But.... it's probably too late.... those opposing Trump are very powerful
Gunter,
We already established where those legal ballot holding containers came from...........and they weren't suitcases. They were from previously, legally opened ballots that were observed by poll watchers earlier in the day, who also observed them put those already opened ballots in those containers under the tables in those spots.
It's on the tape that WxFollower showed us several posts up.
It's a done deal. The evidence shows what really happened on tape from earlier that explains where they came from.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
By WxFollower - Dec. 5, 2020, 6:35 p.m.
I'm a bit late to the party admittedly. Only just a couple of hours ago, I first saw the Fulton County, GA, "suitcasegate" video convincingly presented by Jacki Pick at that GA hearing. It was so convincingly done that my first reaction was "uh oh", this looks very fishy, and that I wanted to admit that here. However, since then I have changed my mind due to looking at more info.
Pick showed 11 PM footage (after almost all had left supposedly after they were asked to go by a "woman with blonde braids" who then stayed to help count ballots) showing containers with assumed ballots suspiciously being brought out from under the table followed by them being scanned between then and 1 AM. She then showed that that table had been brought in the prior morning at 8:22 AM supposedly by the "woman with the blonde braids" with nothing immediately placed under it. But Pick also said that she needed to look at the hours afterward to see how those ballots got under the table.
Then I saw what is at these two links:
1. Link: WSB Debunks 'Smoking Gun' Ballot Box Video Giuliani Pushed (mediaite.com)
This link's video includes Gabriel Sterling, a Republican and Georgia's voting system implementation manager, saying that they went through many hours of the footage.
From this:
"Georgia election investigator Frances Watson elaborated on what the full video revealed.
'We can show. yeah exactly when [the ballot boxes] were placed under there,' she pointed out.
'If we go back in the video hours before, you can see that table being brought into the room at 8:22 a.m. Nothing underneath. No hidden suitcases. Then we can see at 10:00p.m., with a room full of people, including official monitors in the media, as ballots that have been opened but not counted are placed in the boxes sealed up and stored under the table,' Gray reported.
Sterling also shot down Giuliani’s distorted misinformation.
'No magical appearing ballots, these were ballots that were processed in front of monitors,' he explained. 'These are just typical everyday election workers who were just doing their jobs. I mean, it’s not like this is an Oceans 11-level scheme has put together in the middle of the night.'"
Where did I find this link? Not from a Dem, but from none other than a tweet from very conservative Republican Erick Erickson:
From the Fact Check link that Erickson provided:
"Gabriel Sterling, a Republican and Georgia's voting system implementation manager, told Lead Stories during a phone call on December 3, 2020 that what can be seen on the video is normal procedure and nothing looks 'bizarre or odd.'
Election workers known as 'cutters' because their job was to open absentee ballot envelopes and verify ballots for eventual scanning and counting were dismissed for the night sometime after 10 p.m. on November 3, 2020, because their work for the evening had been completed, he explained. Those workers who remained were responsible for conducting the scanning portion of the process, since ballots could not be left without being scanned overnight."
Per chief investigator Francis Watson:
"Nobody told them to stay. Nobody told them to leave. Nobody gave them any advice on what they should do. And It was still open for them or the public to come back in to view at whatever time they wanted to, as long as they were still working."
and
"she explained that the only ballots that were scanned after the media and other observers had left were those that had already been opened in front of these observers."
"Lead Stories" is classified as least biased and using a very high level of factual reporting.
Lead Stories - Media Bias/Fact Check
After seeing the info from these last two links, which are 100% supported by conservative Republicans like Erick Erickson and Gabriel Sterling, I no longer think fraud may have been committed in this case as it has been totally debunked.
Ran across this today (thought I heard it on Fox news earlier this month or somewhere-for sure not CNN) when doing some research:
There’s widespread election counting fraud alright. It is being lead by Trump and his followers in the form of promoting lies. He isn’t just a meanie. He is a conman. Y’all go read what the Wisconsin case result was if you don’t believe me.