I read the summary.

As expected, none of them had the guts to step outside the R rhetoric and see the ROOT CAUSE of the entire world being outraged at the heinous war crimes by Israel to 2+ million innocent people, half being children in Gaza every single day for over a month.

Breaking free of the propaganda and seeing/understanding what the VAST majority of the world is pleading for them to see/understand would be the quickest way to the exit ramp if you're an R running for political office.

Continuing to completely ignore what most of the world is asking for...............seeing Palestinians as human beings with basic rights means this situation is NEVER going to be resolved.

At least Biden has been capable of trying to help people in Gaza but based on him killing 500,000 people in Ukraine, odds are high that he only did this because a large part of the D party is demanding it and for political reasons vs ethical reasons.

It's ironic that all the republicans on the debate stage last night, saw the value of the lives of unborn babies and they are all strongly committed to the sanctity of THAT life.

But not one of them was able to see the value of the lives of 2+ million human beings outside the womb in Gaza!

Political agenda of the R party is defining the value of human beings, NOT ethics here.

I come to this discussion with a heavy heart, for personal reasons.

I may be naive in my views on the Israel/ Palestinian conflict, I certainly am not an expert regarding the centuries of tit-for-tat, eye for an eye aspect of this conflict. I’m sure there are legitimate grievances on both sides. The religious aspects will be discussed and debated without resolution as religious discussions many times are. Heck, our two local Lutheran congregations can’t come to agreement, same with the Methodists. What chance is there here ?

If you consider a conflict to be a holy war, no compromise is possible. To do so would be to deny the absolute certainly both parties have in the righteousness of their cause.

Putting religion aside, let’s look at one basic fact. The unemployment in Gaza has been over 50%. The rate among those men ages 18-35 has run in excess of 65%. I am recalling these numbers, they may not be perfectly exact. 

What would you expect would happen ?

Here‘s where my nativity comes in. I like to separate actions into two categories, reasons and excuses. There is absolutely no excuse for what Hamas did a month ago, it was inexcusable. There is however a reason, pressed against the wall, with no way to improve themselves, no better future to be seen, fighting aged men lashed out, they lashed out in a manner that was inexcusable. They have been supported by Iran over the years, as payment for this support they have been encouraged to be a torn in Israel’s side, culminating in actions like we saw.

The solution will be self determination, employment so the young men do not have to rely on being Iran‘s puppets in the conflict with Israel. Having a bright economic future will allow folks to set aside religious differences. They have seen much of the rest of the Middle East thrive while they, the Palestinians, have stagnated.

Adding to this difficulty is the idea of anti-semitism. Any time a person seems to disparage the actions Israel takes they get hit with accusations of being an anti-Semite. Our country should be the last place a person should have to worry about being ostracized or attacked for speaking their mind.  

I could go on, but that’s the basics.

Agree 100% mcfarmer and great to read you even though this issue is a tough one for many of us.

My lifelong fondness of Israel, started in 1st grade, being taught that the Israelite's are God's chosen people. As an adult, greatly appreciating the wonderful talent, work ethic and spirit of the Jewish people.

Despite that, the Jewish communities in the U.S. are suffering the most emotional trauma in our country from these current events. It's their beloved homeland. On top of that, antisemitism which is NEVER EVER acceptable under any circumstances or racism/hate crimes of any kind including the escalation in attacks on Muslims in this country.

And also your great point about fake antisemitism accusations.

If you listen to hate mongering major charlatan Mark Levin on Fox, I hate Jews and support Hammas/Iran because I have empathy for the human beings in Gaza.

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/100074/#100108

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/100094/#100117

Our latest main thread discussing this is here but I was just commenting on how the Rs handled it last night with this thread. 

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/100385/

Stick around and post more if you want old friend. Fact is, people don't like to hear and read the truth and the truth is what they get here so they go to greener pastures that surround them everywhere..........echo chambers that tell them what they want to hear and what to think.

Which is exactly, 100% the reason that our country keeps getting more and more divided every day.

mike

"It's ironic that all the republicans on the debate stage last night, saw the value of the lives of unborn babies and they are all strongly committed to the sanctity of THAT life.

But not one of them was able to see the value of the lives of 2+ million human beings outside the womb in Gaza!

cutworm

Political agenda of the R party is defining the value of human beings, NOT ethics here."

You can turn that around and say that D's don't see the value of their own unborn children, and they are all strongly committed to allowing the murder of the unborn. All the time promoting, by allowing the perpetrators to get off scott free, murders.

In mercy you can be forgiven a sin but there is still, recompence to be paid (justice)either here in this world or the next.

JMHO

Thanks much, cutworm!

"All the time promoting, by allowing the perpetrators to get off scott free, murders."

So this is pay back for the perpetrators.

Collectively punishing over 2 million people with clearly defined war crimes based on every reasonable standard in the world(but ignored by those that want to justify this).

It's been a month and they are not anywhere close to destroying Hamas. 

Good God man, look what they are dong to the rest of the population. How long do you think it will take for them to finish? 6 months? 50,000 innocent people dead and 150,000 injured? What if they need a year?

Then what?

Not sure on that but what I know with certainty is this.

The bad news for Israel is that this will recruit AT LEAST 10X the number of  new young men committed to devoting their lives to wiping out Israel. 10X the number currently in Hamas that they manage to take out.

The reality is that Israel will not get off scott free because  the consequences to Israel for committing these atrocities will threaten their future existence.

This saddens me greatly. The truth, when its really  bad news like this is always MUCH tougher to honestly accept.

And the global outrage with antisemitism(NEVER justified) ramping up. All caused by what Israel is doing, which has opened many new eyes wide open to the  decades of denigrating Palestinians.

Do you not see the global outrage over this?

Is the VAST majority of the world just not able to see your view(pushed in the US and Israel-where the vast majority of Jews live) or is it the other way around?

The small minority unable to see what everybody else does?

I WAS in that small minority for 60 years before Oct. 7th. I totally understand the thinking and where you are coming from.  But my eyes are wide open now and I'm not relying on the indoctrination anymore and I also totally understand where the rest of the world is coming from.

The world and half the US(including 2 Billion Muslims) is 20X  bigger than Israel and the other half of the US. 

The overwhelming math and the legit justification for being outraged over this predicts where it will end up going.

"All the time promoting, by allowing the perpetrators to get off scott free, murders."

I guess I was not clear. I was referencing the first part of my paragraph, about abortion.

"We are appalled (rightfully so) by the killing of babies in front of their parents. But then we do the same with legalized abortion, a very cruel way to be murdered." Previous post, A look at ourselves

Thanks cutworm!

It took me a week to get your great point (-:

Great discussion here on the upcoming presidential battle. One of Jean's favorites.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COeGnYG4lCo