“The cycle of radicalization cannot be thwarted by operations like the one Israel is carrying out, which only makes the cycle deeper, wider and uglier,” one expert said.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israels-bombardment-gaza-hamas-recruitment-tool-rcna123562
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This story nails the inspirational mindset and recruitment tool for Hamas X10 the current number that these atrocities in Gaza are causing.
Earlier today, The United Nations reported that 88 of their humanitarian aid worKers have been killed by israels bombings
Previous threads:
Genocide
Started by joj - Nov. 5, 2023, 6:16 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/100334/
OH, MY!! ISRAEL VS PALESTINE
Started by 12345 - Oct. 29, 2023, 4:32 a.m
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/100094/
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I think one side might be focusing too much on Israel being a victim.........not of the horrible Hamas attacks which started this and justified a response by Israel.
But, instead on the fact that Israel is supposedly a victim of people unfairly blaming them for what they are doing in Gaza right now.
You can call it what you want.
1. An enormous humanitarian crisis for 2 million people
2. Blatant War atrocities
3. Genocide
4. Israel defending itself
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Depending on what verbiage you want to use to line up with what you want to believe......... all 4 of those terms describe the same current horrible humanitarian crisis for over 2 million people.
For the past month now, they've had their food, water, fuel and medical supplies intentionally cut off. Continual bombing has killed 10,000+ innocent people, half are children. 25,000+ injured. Many homeless and most without power.
Because of the stone cold, appalling facts above, people around the world are more outraged at Israel for doing this than they have ever been in history by an extremely wide margin!!
Fox has been insisting all day long, every day that this is #4 above and the rest of the world hates Jews and supports Hamas or Iran, because they use #1, #2 and #3.
Fact is that whatever # you use above........ITS THE EXACT SAME THING HAPPENING!
You can call it "a giant fireworks display" and it would still feature the exact same morbid statistics that get more shocking by the day and the exact same massive outrage around the planet.
Just to repeat again, I have been very strongly pro Israel my entire life and I greatly admire the Jewish people.
But I use my eyes and an objective brain, not my indoctrination to see the statistics and the JUSTIFIED widespread global outrage.
Antisemitism is NEVER acceptiable. NEVER EVER! Including now.
However, it should be clear on what the reason is for hate crimes against the Jews to be going thru the roof right now.
Still not justified.
I can only try to imagine how horrible this is for people that are Jewish or Palestinian and live in the United States and have to watch this, especially with families in the Middle East.
However, the 2 million people in Gaza are going thru something right now, day after day that ranks near the top for worst atrocities in human history.
Empathy for them, especially now is driving global outrage but make no mistake, when we empathize with somebody, it causes us to TAKE THEIR SIDE.
Right after the cold blooded Hamas attacks on Israel, the world empathized with Israel and hated Hamas.
That same empathy for people living in Gaza right now, is also causing people to look closer at their big picture(before the war) and to also take their side.
As We Marched on Washington, I Felt Certain That Palestine Would Be Free
https://www.thenation.com/article/activism/palestine-march-washington-dc-dispatch/
On Saturday, November 4, hundreds of thousands of pro-Palestinian demonstrators took over the streets of Washington, DC, demanding a cease-fire and an end to Israel’s brutal bombardment of the Gaza Strip in occupied Palestine that has killed over 10,000 people, including over 4,000 children. The march was widely reported to be the largest pro-Palestinian demonstration in the history of the United States, and was the culmination of weeks of protests in cities across the country and world.
The author has a Western mindset.
I believe that, joj.
Everybody has some sort of mindset.
I'm trying to use statistics/facts that come in well defined numbers, that include the numbers of people protesting and committing hate crimes around the world.
I also provide my personal views but those don’t matter.
What matters is what the world is seeing and how the world is reacting to what it sees.
Regardless of the guys mindset the global reaction featuring unprecedented outrage is supportive evidence for his case using whatever mindset that he has or this represents.
This is what saddens me the most and I don’t want it to be true.
Sadly, the pro Israel side has resorted to propaganda in reporting the news on this war.
Fox won't even mention any of what's happening in Gaza to innocent people. Basically censoring the horrible humanitarian crises as of Israel's war crimes there.
Always telling us that this is Israel defending itself and focusing any discussion of killing, on the Oct. 7 massacre of innocent people in Israel. To them the 2+ million innocent people in Gaza are just pieces of sheet and have no value.
if you disagree with that, then you support Hamas and Iran.
This is really, REALLY the death knell for Biden's political future in the US(actually I was already confident he wouldn't run).
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/99844/
Fox is the go to, Pro Israel station and it's Rs that are rallying for Israel.............but almost NONE of them are Biden's supporters and Fox is bashing the heck out of Biden for not being pro Israel. And for him being pro Hamas and pro Iran.
Almost all the Palestinian support is coming from the Ds. Many of them are extremely outraged over this and look at our relationship with Israel as being one of collusion over the current events. We are trying to send ISRAEL a massive aid package(14.5 Billion) sponsored by the............Rs.
The Rs are blaming Biden for not being pro Israel enough. While the Ds bash Biden for being TOO pro Israel and not helping Gaza enough.
Israel is one of the richest countries in the world.
While Gaza, one of the poorest is suffering the worst humanitarian crisis in the world in decades............get's ZERO.
Israel = 14,500,000,000 = rich country
Gaza = Funding 00,000,000,000 = No food, no water, no fuel, no electricity, no medical treatment, just daily bombardment with 10+ thousand dead and 25+ thousand injured for the 2+ million innocent people living there.
People living in the US and Israel, where the vast majority of the world's Jews live and where the R news sources are censoring the grim realities in Gaza are only a small fraction of the world.
Fox viewers are being bombarded all day with blatant lies regarding this situation.
The non Fox and non propaganda mindsets know the truth. Which is the VAST majority in the world.
Spain has a large Muslim population of about two million people, according to government statistics. About 50,000 Jewish people also live in the country.
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Doing the math, 2,000,000 is 40 times bigger than 50,000. 40 Muslims for every 1 Jew.
Israel is easily winning this war against Gaza but losing the war on public opinion very badly around the world and its getting worse each day.
Please don't shoot the messenger. I wish it were not true and don't post things here that are not backed by the authentic facts/data/evidence.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/08/israel-war-news-hamas-gaza-palestine/
US diplomat Blinken was speaking as the possibility of the conflict spreading across the Middle East rises.
22 Oct 2023
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“The United States believes key elements should include no forcible displacement of Palestinians from Gaza – not now, not after the war,” he said.
“No use of Gaza as a platform for terrorism or other violent attacks. No reoccupation of Gaza after the conflict ends. No attempt to blockade or besiege Gaza. No reduction in the territory of Gaza.”
The Secretary of State’s comments came after Netanyahu’s declaration earlier this week that Israel could assume responsibility for Gaza’s security “for an indefinite period”.
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Because of these ongoing war atrocities by Israel, any party wanting to be elected in the future in the Middle East, only has to run on a campaign slogan "a vote for me, means death to Israel!"
https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-11-08-23/index.html
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Not much to show by Israel after a month of this. Every day that goes by like this is just adding more fuel and more outrage.
People decided from the beginning what side to take which determines what they want to believe, why they want to believe it and in the case of the Rs, what sources they go to in order to hear/read news that tells them what they want to believe.
In the case of the Ds, there are 2 sides battling over this.
Besides the tragic events in Gaza, the rest of the world is erupting in chaos over this. The fact that the US military in Arab countries is willing to accept dozens of attacks and injuries with no response tells us something.
They hated us BEFORE this happened and detested our presence. This is greatly inspiring efforts to try to dislodge our presence and sabotaging any hope for possible peace talks.
Based on how we messed up the Middle East for our self serving agenda the past 7 decades, I find their position to be reasonable. Wars and wrecking other counties, killing people is what the US is best at!
Escalation, escalation, escalation )-:
All because of Israel's continuation of the war crimes in Gaza.
This is exactly what Hamas dreamed of.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/us-guided-missile-sub-shows-up-in-suez-canal/
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https://www.reuters.com/world/us-carries-out-more-strikes-against-iranian-targets-syria-2023-11-08/
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https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/9-killed-in-us-strikes-on-iran-linked-site-in-syria-report-4559072
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As long as Israel continues to obliterate 10s of thousands of innocent people and create a heinous humanitarian crisis for over 2 million innocent people in Gaza, there will be escalation in the Middle East which will lead to widespread regional war that includes the US.
Around the world, there will continue to be an increase in already unprecedented protesting, with a continued escalation in violence and hate crimes.
If you disagree with that.
Why?
If the dynamics that caused this and that are causing it to escalate remain in place, why would it stop escalating with the exact same dynamics pushing the same entities to get more enraged?
What is very likely to eventually happen, is that one of these strikes on the US are going to hit a prime target and kill dozens of our people over there.
When we escalate the response, they escalate back. Eventually, the escalations justify us declaring war. Unlike Biden using Ukrainians on suicide missions to fight our war against Russia, this one will feature US military fighting the war in the Middle East.
We don't care if low valued Ukrainians and Russians die(neither does Biden, Zelensky or Putin using them) or if worthless Arabs die, like those in Gaza but if Americans or Jews die, somebody needs to be held accountable.
Both parties supported Biden killing 500,000 low valued humans in Ukraine and the war mongering Rs are chomping at the bit for us to risk brave soldiers to take out worthless Arabs but the Ds (which are the Biden votes) will not be too thrilled with us in another Middle East war to kill Arabs(that have value to many of them) but at the expense of losing the highest valued human beings on the planet...........people from the United States.
In case it's not clear, that was oozing in sarcasm )-:
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Seriously though, Israel has had 100% control of the escalation dynamic the past month and nobody anywhere has been able to alter that.
Let's hope something changes that real soon because we are getting close to hitting some NEW points of no return/no going back from that which could be catastrophic.
https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-11-09-23/index.html
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Israel continues to be ENTIRELY responsible for the worst humanitarian crisis in decades for 2+ million people in Gaza.
Make no mistake, Israel has chosen this path, defying all pleas from clear thinking leaders and people around the world to NOT do this to the innocent people of Gaza for 4+ weeks now but they have remained defiant and continue the barbaric treatment to other human beings with the blatant display indicating they place the value of the lives of Palestinians at close to ZERO.
Americans, especially those that are Jewish and that are from the R party that watch Fox will believe what they wish were true and believe the massive propaganda from "their" side but actions here speak louder than the bs propaganda words and my mission here is to EXPOSE propaganda at this ANTI echo chamber.
Regardless of this fact, there is ZERO justification for the massive increase in global antisemitism and anti Arab incidents. ZERO because the people that are targets have ZERO to do with the atrocities being committed by Israel this past month.
Even if people want to absurdly justify Israel killing many thousands of children, subjecting 2 million innocent people to the worst conditions a human being can imagine for over a month as "self defense"..........it can never justify hate crimes against them. NEVER!!!
But for those that don't seem to understand WHY this is happening. Make no mistake. When there is an intentional atrocity this horrific taking place to 2 million innocent people every day for over a month, people with empathy for other human beings will be very upset about it.
I get that cognitive bias and propaganda can be so powerful and effective that it can blind the other side to being able to comprehend, even the most mind boggling violations being committed against other human beings but at least try to recognize that OTHER people in the world without captured brains are capable of feeling empathy for the poor people in Gaza and are emphatic that Israel stop their horrific war crimes.
Hate crimes make it even worse but please understand their mentality is based on VERY JUSTIFIED OUTRAGE of something that the other side is ignoring and because their outrage and desperate cries for help for the people of GAZA are being ignored, the response is ALWAYS going to be an increase in the outrage, along with escalation in the hate and violence and attempts to be heard(attempts to stop the atrocities).
Pro Israel sources preaching about how wrong antisemitism is, while completely ignoring THE REASON for it, are letting Israel off the hook and in complete denial and refuse to listen to a word the other side is trying to tell them.
The ONLY way to stop the escalation in the antisemitism and hate crimes is to stop the entire reason for it. Stop defending the indefensible and listen to these people who have very legit empathy for human beings in Gaza and Palestinians in general.
Until Israel and the United States treats Palestinians like human beings with value, this problem will only get worse.
That means right now and in the future.
Based on history, the ability to do that is not part of the indoctrinated belief system of people in Israel and many in the United States(most Jews in the world live in those 2 countries).
The solid proof of that is what's taking place right now. This would be an impossible occurrence if Israel thought Palestinians/people in Gaza were valued human beings with basic rights.
There is a crystal clear, cause and effect relationship going on here with one side wanting to blame the WRONG cause so they don't have any accountability for the REAL cause.
https://www.ohchr.org/en/prevention-and-early-warning/preventing-human-rights-violations
https://www.ohchr.org/en/get-involved/campaign/udhr-75
https://hub.jhu.edu/2023/10/27/israel-gaza-conflict-human-rights/
"Intentional attacks on civilians and collective punishment are each war crimes. Grave violations of the rules, such as targeting civilians or civilian infrastructure, taking hostages, or starving the population, are war crimes."
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/09/politics/israel-pauses-gaza-white-house/index.html
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This is a sick joke and insult to our intelligence meant to try to give the impression that somehow, they care about the people of Gaza.
Continue to deprive them of sufficient food, water, fuel, medical treatment, shelter/homes and tell them to move to a new area (south) where there is no food, water, fuel, medical supplies and shelter and will be EVEN MORE OVERCROWDED with sick, wounded, hungry, thirsty, traumatized people, half being children while they only bomb for 20 hours, instead of 24 hours.
This will do nothing to stop the escalation and increasing outrage. People supporting Israel claiming this is self defense will buy into this as some sort of concession showing they care for these innocent people.
The rest of the world with open eyes will see this as just an attempt to manipulate the already brainwashed that are gullible enough to buy into this.
Live updates
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/9/israel-gaza-war-live-day-34
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Let me guess............Hamas was hiding in the hospital and they had no choice except to bomb it, along with all the innocent people. That excuse wore out weeks ago.
https://www.npr.org/2023/11/07/1210775385/israel-hamas-gaza-hostages-prisoner-exchange
Israeli ground troops were able to free one hostage soldier after their incursion into Gaza, but it's unlikely troops can free hundreds of others, with Hamas believed to be holding them in their labyrinth of underground tunnels and chambers.
"If the army will go to free them, a big percentage of them will be dead. I don't want to get my grandchildren back as corpses," Brodutch said of his grandchildren, who are four, eight and 10 years old.
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One excuse that Israel has used for these war atrocities is that they are trying to rescue the hostages.
So far, 4 have been released and 1 was freed in 1 month. At this rate it will take 48 months to get them all and the most likely scenario, is like the article stated, most will be dead.
And at this rate, in 48 months, 480,000 Gazans would be dead most of the rest injured. Obviously that would never happen but it shows how incredibly high the kill rate has been for Israel taking out innocent people and why some people refer to this as genocide.
Or maybe, since they clearly hate Palestinians guts and consider them human garbage, they rationalize like this.
240 Israel hostages have more value than 2,400,000 Palestinians.
Using that frame of mind, we can estimate that, for them, human value is
1 Jew = 10,000 Palestinians
Whatever that number is, their actions sure suggest a massively disproportionate number placed on the much greater value for the lives of their people compared to the lives of these people in Gaza that they intensely hate and denigrate.
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This incident was an enormous wake up call to the world demonstrated by Israel committing war crimes and denigrating the lives of 2+ million human human beings day after day as we all watched in horror.
There is no UNseeing it or not remembering it forever.
I'm so sorry to know this and share it as the future of Israel looks grim.
The only hope is a complete overthrow of the current incompetent, disastrous government and immediate change in policy that INTENTIONALLY lifts up Palestinians instead of doing the opposite for decades.
What are the chances of that?
The same as the chances for Israel to have peace and even exist.
With regards to our bible thumping Christians that think they know more about God's intentions than others because the can regurgitate verses from the bible and watch propaganda on Fox news.
Quoting the bible is great but how about an application of the principles in it for Christians that also follow the New Testament.
If you look at the Gospels, you should recall who the Jews hated most in the time of Jesus.
The Samaritans!
Jesus was often critical of the elite, hypocritical Jews in his day, while having empathy for the hated, downtrodden Samaritans.
My favorite parable is that of The Good Samaritan. I have told or referred to that parable hundreds of times and lived the principle of that parable my entire life.
Who were the Samaritans?
So who were the Samaritans, really? Levine explains that they were not simply outcasts: They were the despised enemies of the Jews. Yet where listeners would have expected a Jew to be the hero of Jesus’ story, instead they would have been shocked to hear that it is a Samaritan. As Levine explains, only by understanding this reality does the powerful message of the parable come through:
The parable offers … a vision of life rather than death. It evokes 2 Chronicles 28, which recounts how the prophet Oded convinced the Samaritans to aid their Judean captives. It insists that enemies can prove to be neighbors, that compassion has no boundaries, and that judging people on the basis of their religion or ethnicity will leave us dying in a ditch.
https://bible.org/illustration/hatred-between-jews-and-samaritans
https://www.tearfund.org.au/stories/the-good-samaritan-insights-into-systemic-inequality
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The most ironic thing about the principle in "The Good Samaritan" parable and several others is that the "Samaritan's" in this age are the Palestinians and especially right now.
In 2023, the Samaritans that Jesus used to teach lessons with in his parables are the INNOCENT dehumanized and hated people living in Gaza.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/10/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-latest-news-on-gaza-conflict.html
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How would you like to be 1 of these people?
Nothing but the clothes on their backs!
Palestinians leave from the northern part of the Gaza to flee the central and southern parts of the Gaza Strip on November 10, 2023.
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These are real human beings, man!
Stop believing U.S. propaganda, mainly from the right that protests around the world outraged over the treatment of these Palestinians are pro Hamas/Iran inspired. And that showing support for 2+ million people, suffering from a horrible humanitarian crisis, day after day, means that person hates Israel.
Use your eyes and brain and stop believing that propaganda. Forget the religious differences and being convinced that "your" faith, worshipping "your" God makes you superior to other human beings.
Especially those that worship using a different book and different rituals that are different than you.
Our God compels us to reach out to LIFT UP people like this that are much less fortunate. We should fight to stop the oppression, not defend the oppressors!!
Make that our HUMANITY compels us to do this! We don't need to find a passage in scripture to tell us what the right thing to do is.
Be inspired by empathy for other HUMAN BEINGS!