Gaza hospital explosion
29 responses |
Started by WxFollower - Oct. 17, 2023, 5:54 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/99753/
https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-10-21-23/index.html
After a peace summit in Cairo aimed at de-escalating the war between Israel and Hamas, Egypt criticized the international community for not doing enough to address the root causes of the conflict.
"The international scene over the past decades has revealed a serious deficiency in finding a just and lasting solution to the Palestinian issue, because it sought to manage the conflict, and not end it permanently," reads a statement issued by the Egyptian presidency on Saturday.
"The ongoing war has also disclosed a shortcoming in the values of the international community in addressing crises," it said. "While we see one place rushing and competing to promptly condemn the killing of innocent people, we find incomprehensible hesitation in denouncing the same act in another place. We even see attempts to justify this killing, as if the life of the Palestinian human being is less important than that of other people."
Russian losses are extremely high. Accordingly, Ukraine reported last Friday that Moscow lost 1,380 soldiers in the days before.
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Yippeee! 1,380 non human, devils were killed from the country that we intensely hate and want nothing but bad things to happen to. The propaganda of hate from the MSM and White house wants us to celebrate each death with a victory dance because they are the enemy and we hate their guts )-:
More than 1,300 innocent Israelis killed, including at least 31 American citizens, by the terrorist group Hamas.
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We mourn the loss of these precious, life deserving souls. They earned the right to live a long, prosperous life by being born in Israel or Ukraine or the United States unlike those pieces of shisst born in Russia or Palestine.
metmike: Gee, this source paints a completely different picture. I wonder why?
I guess that all the other sources are just making it up to make Israel look bad. Only thing they mention is how many hostages that Gaza has.
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metmike: Instead, Reuters is an extremely reliable source. Let's see what they have to say:
The secretary-general of the United Nations visited the crossing between the besieged Gaza Strip and Egypt on Friday, and said humanitarian aid must be allowed across as soon as possible.
At least 4,137 Palestinians have been killed, including hundreds of children, and 13,000 wounded in Gaza, the Palestinian health ministry said. The U.N. says more than a million have been made homeless.
metmike: And looky here what I just found from just over 2 years ago. Clearly, this isn't an isolated incident. Man, am I ever waking up! My eyes have just been opened wide about the Israel that I always believed over any other source.
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For the very first time in my life, with eyes/mind wide open I finally get where these crazy, hate crazed, pro Arab, anti Semitic sources are coming from!!!
For the first time in my life, I get this completely! Ironically, from somebody that I have disliked and disagreed with since I learned about her.
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The Israelite's/Jews may have been God's chosen people in the Old Testament as well as having suffered numerous atrocities during their long history, including the 2nd worst atrocity that took place in October 2023.
However, that doesn't give them impunity to cause major unjustified atrocities and claim that its self defense.
The saddest thing of all is that the actions of Israel after Oct. 7th made is MUCH worse for everybody. Dead people can never come back to life of course but Israel's actions, this time were during an age of advanced technology and constant reporting that allowed a billion+ people around the world to see/read about what happened in Gaza.
Many of those people will remember this and many more than the number that exist in Hamas will be inspired by it.
I wish it weren't so and its not right but it........just is. What in the heck could the government of Israel possibly be thinking?
Were they that enraged?
Were they unable to grasp the long term consequences?
Do they have that little respect and humanity for people they hate?
The self defense position is obliterated by the authentic facts.
If somebody beheadEd my baby, I don't get to kill their family, injure 50 relatives and destroy every neighborhood of everybody they associated with.............then call it even.
This is the biggest reason why Israel's atrocities in Gaza this month are going to come back to bite them badly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilhan_Omar
However, we can multiply that anger by an extremely large number of Muslims around the world. How big is that number?
Much bigger than what you probably imagined at 2 billion.w
If just 5% (1 out of 20) of them are outraged over Israel's atrocity bombings in Gaza this month, that's 100 million outraged Muslims, which is 5 times the number of ALL the Jews on the planet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth
| Year | World population | Muslim population | Islamic followers share (%) |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1800 | 1 billion | 91 million | (9.1%) |
| 1900 | 1.6 billion | 200 million | (12.5%) |
| 1970 | 3.7 billion | 577 million | (15.6%) |
| 2000 | 6.14 billion | 1.291 billion | (21%) |
| 2013 | 7.21 billion | 1.635 billion | (22.7%) |
| 2016 | 7.46 billion | 1.8 billion | (24.1%) |
| 2020 | 7.8 billion | 2 billion | (26%) |
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Most of the Jewish population lives in the United States and Israel.
The total between those 2 countries is just under 19,000,000 if we include the enlarged Jewish population statistic.
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Let's compare the total Muslims at 2 billion to the Jews at 21 million.
Basically, this means that for every Jew in the world, there are almost 100 Muslims.
Over the last century, the Muslims have multiplied X 10 and gone from 12.5% of the population to more than double that at 26% of the global population.
If you want to survive in a world like that where Muslims outnumber you x 100, it's extraordinarily ignorant to extremely OVER react to an horrific attack against you, in a way that causes those people (who already hate you) to feel legit justification in their minds to eliminate you.
What in the heck was Israel thinking???
Rage and hatred will cause impulsive actions that can be prevented by pausing to cool off before making rash, really bad decisions. Too late now. However it can still get worse or it can get a bit better too.
joj wanted to know what I would do and I responded. At this point, if I was Israel, I would acknowledge going overboard and apologize for it(will never happen). I would hold off on the ground invasion until things quiet down. With the invasion, they can't really be transparent or it would tip off Hamas.
I fear that no matter what they do now, the atrocity that they've already committed has already formed permanent, destructive narratives in the heads of other people and they will be condemned for EVERYTHING. Their fault.
Maybe they need to give up some things in order to pacify others and try to use it for peace.
There is no real fix here. Just use paths that don't make it even worse. I get how difficult and impossible this is in so many ways(and there is no fix, regardless of the plan) but still, they did the absolutely worst thing possible because they wanted to win THIS war, while causing future MUCH WORSE wars as a direct consequence.
In thinking about this situation a great deal recently (for the first time in my life) I'm not close to being an expert and there is no longer a fix that will completely solve the problems but joj did ask me what I would do.
The bad history and recent dynamics in Gaza are absolutely what caused this. That must change substantially and it has to be from Israel acknowledging the current way of them running Gaza is a complete disaster and making concessions that it doesn't like. Failure to do so will eventually make things worse and worse and threaten the existence of Israel...........which may be in the cards anyway and trying to fight something that's inevitable only makes it worse than if you make the adjustments to be PART OF the solution.
I was thinking of this earlier today. The neighborhood that I grew up in, St. Alphonsus parish, was vast majority Catholic(Dearborn and Detroit residents were part of the parish). It's 90% Muslim now.
I remember, in 1990, when my parents moved away from their beloved parish to West Dearborn to a mostly Catholic neighborhood, Divine Child because they saw the writing on the wall. Now, even that neighborhood is becoming majority Muslim.
However, all the dwindling numbers of Catholics, including one of my sisters that is also in that neighborhood, live in complete peace and harmony with no problems. Both religions totally respect each other as human beings and equals, despite different religions (the Koran has many historical events and people in common with, especially our Old Testament)
Now, even the Dearborn Mayor and Chief of police are Arabs. That, my friends is just part of progress in the world that we live in, entirely because of the spread of Islam. Muslims are now 27% of the world's population(more than double a century ago). More than 2 billion people.
Dearborn’s Abdullah Hammoud discusses city power, policing and how the Democratic party can avoid blowing the Midwest in 2024.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/20/dearborn-michigan-abdullah-hammoud-00116900
You can try to fight that because you want it to favor YOUR preferences ........and lose eventually as progress tramples over you or you can lift Muslims up (or whoever it is that's different than you) and accept them as equals and they will respect you in return.
Hold on to your personal values(and religion), of course but don't let that create intolerance of others. In fact, use that to welcome others and share values and find common ground because we all want many of the same things.
Fighting that will yield constant adversity..........then eventually in a realm like we see in Israel or Catholics in Dearborn MI, lose anyway because of being overwhelmed by the numbers. OR, you can accept it and decide to live in peace with people that are much different than you because of religion and customs BUT EQUAL TO YOU in every way.
That's the key. Treating them as equals and respecting THEIR rights. Accepting things that go well beyond what you WISH were the circumstances. Not accepting the real world is fighting the truth.
Israel has absolutely NOT been treating people in Gaza as equals or with respect. They were once residents on land that was taken over by Israel over 70 years. Not treating them as equals and constantly giving their lives less value, as we witnessed by this recent atrocity that killed over 4,000, injured 13 ,000+ and left 1 million homeless, causing a humanitarian GOVERNMENT SPONSORED crisis that was an order of magnitude worse than what they claim justified it.
That was a blatant display that violated all minimal ethical standards for treatment of other human beings which the entire world witnessed!
Using the atrocity committed in Israel on October 7th to justify committing their own atrocity against innocent people that was an order of magnitude worse clearly showed that Israel considers the lives of Palestinians to be worth MUCH LESS than their own lives.
I honestly don't know if that sort of mentality can be fixed. Like joj, stated, it's indoctrinated from youth......but he was referring to Arab hatred of Jews, while not recognizing that it obviously goes both ways.
We should read the history to understand the Palestinian position here(they are being treated worse than 2nd class citizens) and understand that there are 100 Muslims in the world for every Jew and that number is increasing fast. Who do you think is going to prevail in the long run?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip
Israel provides the Gaza Strip water, food, and electricity from its own supplies during times of peace. The blockade has devastated Gaza's economy and caused a nearly 50% poverty rate[18] and one of the highest unemployment rates in the world.[19][20] Living conditions in Gaza have led human rights organizations to continue to label it "an open-air prison"
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2021-Another OVER reaction by Israel that followed the same game plan that we are now witnessing again in Gaza:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Israel%E2%80%93Palestine_crisis
On the afternoon of 10 May, Hamas gave Israel an ultimatum to withdraw its security forces from both the Temple Mount complex and Sheikh Jarrah by 6 p.m. When the ultimatum expired without a response, both Hamas and PIJ launched rockets from the Gaza Strip into Israel;[47][48] some of these rockets hit Israeli residences and a school.[49][50][51][52] Israel then began a campaign of airstrikes against Gaza; by 16 May, some 950 targeted attacks had demolished, completely or partially: 18 buildings, including four high-rise towers; 40 schools and four hospitals; and also struck the al-Shati refugee camp.[53][54][55][56][57] Additionally, at least 19 medical facilities were damaged or destroyed by the Israeli bombardment.[58] By 17 May, the United Nations estimated that Israeli airstrikes had destroyed 94 buildings in Gaza, comprising 461 housing and commercial units, including the al-Jalaa Highrise; housing offices of the Associated Press, the Al Jazeera Media Network, and other news outlets; and 60 condominiums.[59]
As a result of the violence, at least 256 Palestinians, including 66 children, were killed (including at least seven from friendly fire).[22][60] In Israel, at least 13 people were killed,[11] including two children.[14] The Gaza Ministry of Health reported that more than 1,900 Palestinians were injured,[21] and as of 12 May, at least 200 Israelis were reported to have been injured.
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Please don't get my message wrong here. It's to point out what MUST CHANGE IMMEDIATELY for Israel to survive and have a future, which is what I want badly. They must take strong initiatives, hopefully with the aid of the United States to give residents of Gaza the same basic needs that they themselves would want. Along with that, open the borders and restore freedoms. Help the economy and people's quality of life.
Failure to address the root cause and doing what they just did, provides even more inspiration for the massive global population of Muslims to hate and target Jews and Israel.
Treat people like shisst, then kill them and destroy their communities with bombs when they violently rebel and this is what you get. And it will only get worse because they only get madder and more desperate, with nothing to lose because they have nothing to begin with. Israel has EVERYTHING to lose because they have everything now.
Respect and assist them and you get the potential for peace. But it means that Israel MUST acknowledge that their preferred way is not working and acknowledge hard to admit facts about the changing world that means lifting up people that are eroding their preferred state so that both sides HAVE A CHANCE to live in peace.
There is no other way if Israel wants to survive which is what I hope and pray for.
Gaza's Health Ministry said 266 Palestinians, including 117 children, had been killed by Israeli air strikes in the past 24 hours in the enclave, to which Israel laid "total siege" after a deadly mass infiltration into Israel by Hamas gunmen on Oct. 7.
The U.N. humanitarian office said the volume of aid entering so far was just 4% of the daily average before the hostilities and a fraction of what was needed with food, water, medicines and fuel stocks running out.
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I still strongly condemn the horrible atrocities that diabolical Hamas committed against the innocent people of Israel on Oct. 7. However, killing more and more innocent people in Gaza will only continue to make it worse and worse. If this doesn't stop, those standing on the sidelines will be pushed over the edge. It's almost as if they want an expanded war in the Middle East because this is THE EXACT RECIPE for it. Can they be this ignorant to not know that? Or is hatred and revenge so emotionally overpowering that they can't see or think critically as they obliterate Gaza and INTENTIONALLY subject the innocent people there to a profoundly barbaric environment. Only intense hatred could fuel such cruelty.
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https://www.axios.com/2023/10/21/israel-hamas-war-syria-egypt-lebanon-jordan
Hezbollah has announced the deaths of five more militants as clashes along the Lebanon-Israel border intensify
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https://time.com/6326885/israel-gaza-strikes-increase-plans/
Just 20 trucks were allowed in, an amount aid workers said was insufficient to address the unprecedented humanitarian crisis. More than 200 trucks carrying 3,000 tons of aid have been waiting nearby for days.
Gaza's 2.3 million Palestinians, half of whom have fled their homes, are rationing food and drinking dirty water. Hospitals say they are running low on medical supplies and fuel for emergency generators amid a territory-wide power blackout. Five hospitals have stopped functioning because of fuel shortages and bombing damage, the Hamas-run Health Ministry said.
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It's makes me so sad to KNOW that this is already Israel's biggest blunder in history by an extremely wide margin and they just keep doubling and tripling down and making it worse and worse, live in front of us that can watch it in shock and horror. With the vast majority of Jews living in the United States and Israel, the majority of news sources are not telling us about the current worsening, catastrophic atrocity in Gaza at the hands of Israel. I still mourn for the 1,400 brutally killed innocent people in Israel 2 weeks ago by Hamas. However, I fear that because of Israel's current actions, their losses in the long run could be 100s of times worse than that. They are risking their very existence. Hamas isn't making them create a massive humanitarian crisis for most of the 2+ million living in Gaza. The leaders of Israel are committing horrible war crimes against innocent children. Stop blaming what Hamas did 2 weeks ago and using that to justify this atrocity targeting 100s of times more innocent people.
How would you feel if you had innocent family members trapped in Gaza?
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As well as risk of death and injury, psychiatrist says situation is leading to symptoms such as convulsions and bed-wetting
About half of Gaza’s 2.3 million population are children. Since 7 October, they have lived under near constant bombardment, with many packed into temporary shelters in UN-run schools after fleeing their homes with little access to food or clean water.
Protesters in Washington demand ceasefire, marking rift in community as Anti-Defamation League condemns demonstration
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/19/jewish-protest-israel-gaza-washington-dc
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'Not in our name': the Jewish New Yorkers speaking out against 'dehumanisation' of Palestinians
New York is home to the largest Jewish population outside of Israel, a two million-strong community that has suffered anguish in the wake of the October 7 Hamas attacks on Israel. Many Jewish New Yorkers back the Israeli government's response to the attacks and have rallied in support of Israel. But others are unsettled by the military campaign in the Gaza Strip and the huge price paid by Palestinian civilians.
'Not in our name': the Jewish New Yorkers speaking out against 'dehumanisation' of Palestinians
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/22/1207415994/israel-hamas-palestinians-gaza-religion
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Good for them for standing up for what's right. Putting ethical principles and humanity ahead of politics and propaganda and despite taking heat from people in their party that practice tribalism and group think.
Speaking of politics and propaganda, here's one of the king charlatans from Fox.
Life Liberty Levin
Levin: The Hamas network's infiltration of America is being ignored
https://www.foxnews.com/video/6339684977112
Telling us to be afraid of Hamas in the United States and condemning people, like me that try to tell you the truth about what's going on in Palestine. He says that people like me are part of terrorist affiliated, anti Semitic organizations for Hamas, funded by the enemy.
We are enemies from within.
No Mark, you are full of doo doo. I just provided the authentic facts and truth about what's REALLY going on in this thread and others that you censor on your programs. Instead, filling your viewers head with evil conspiracy theories to vilify people like me when we disagree with you.
I watch people like this to hear what they say because sometimes they make good points.
But also to hear them present hoaxes and conspiracy theories on people, like this one that Levin perpetrated just minutes ago on his Fox targets(victims). That way, it helps in trying to understand where his/their pathological thinking is coming from, which is part of me exposing them with the authentic truths.
I love analysis........that includes analyzing Mark Levis.
His bamboozling trick is to say convincing sounding things that people want to hear but it's much more than that, just like with Tucker Carlson(most of the time).
Their trick is to pretend that they have this unique insight into seeing things in the world/America that nobody else on our side sees. The other, evil side can always see this of course because its part of their plan to destroy everything good.
There is some of that going on of course. Like with the fake climate crisis or the war in Ukraine.
However, you will note that I bombard you with pages and pages of authentic facts and scientific evidence to prove it indisputably when I expose anything. Never relying on convincing words. ALWAYS rock solid evidence/data/authentic facts to support them.
Levin and Tucker are not like that. Tonight was another example where he showed ZERO about what is above in this thread that DEFINES the current situation in Gaza. He would never want you to know that because it would completely expose his bs tonight.
I'm always happy to do that!
Instead, he appeals to viewers ideological, political cognitive bias in telling them only things that confirm what they tuned into him to hear. No fact checks or skepticism from his viewers because we(as human beings) don't do that to information that tells us what we want to hear and what confirms what we think that we know already.
That's exactly why its like taking candy from a baby for guys like him to capture the minds of his viewers so effectively.
Led by Biden, Western leaders stress Israel’s right to self-defense, say it must protect civilians
“The leaders reiterated their support for Israel and its right to defend itself against terrorism and called for adherence to international humanitarian law, including the protection of civilians,” says the statement from US President Joe Biden, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, French President Emmanuel Macron, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni and UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak following a joint phone call they held earlier today.
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Earth to Biden, Trudeau, Macron, Scholz, Meloni and Sunak. What planet are they on?
In Gaza, so far there are almost 5,000, mostly civilians dead, 17,000 injured, 1 million displaced or homeless, mostly children. Hospitals are overwhelmed, some losing power and people(mostly children) lack water, food and electricity and this is their statement.
On what planet is that NOT blatantly violating international humanitarian laws and NOT protecting civilians, especially children???
Instead, they express support for what's going on, justified by suggesting that decimating the lives of innocent people in Gaza, half that are children, is defensive with no condemnation? WTF is the matter with these SOB's??
By no coincidence, those are the exact same corrupt leaders and corrupt NATO countries lying their butts off about THEIR war in Ukraine that's killed 500,000 people so far (and the fake climate crisis).
Heck, whats another 10,000 more dead civilians/children. Lives must be sacrificed for their much more important political agenda, you know.
And they live on a greening planet, with the best weather/climate for life in the last 1,000 years, where the increasing beneficial CO2, that is still only half of the optimal level for most life is actually killing the planet from a fake climate crisis, according to them.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/23/middleeast/israel-gaza-hamas-war-monday-intl-hnk/index.html
Gaza and Jerusalem CNN —
Israel has widened its offensive against Hamas and its regional enemies, intensifying its bombardment of the besieged Gaza Strip, striking Hezbollah cells in Lebanon and targeting the occupied West Bank.
Hundreds were killed in Gaza after sustained aerial assaults on Monday morning, according to the health ministry in the enclave, which is controlled by Hamas. And while two convoys of aid trucks crossed into Gaza from Egypt over the weekend, relief agencies warned that the needs of the 2 million people in the enclave are vast.
The ministry said 436 people, including 182 children, were killed in strikes overnight. Most of those killed were from the southern part of Gaza, the ministry added. Israeli airstrikes have killed at least 5,087 people in Gaza since October 7, including 1,119 women and 2,055 children, according to the health ministry. At least 14,245 people were wounded, it added.
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1. I mourn for the lives lost in Israel from the brutal slaying of innocence by Hamas
2. I mourn for the mounting losses of the humanitarian crisis being caused by Israel
3. I mourn most for Israel's future. A country that I love that has just signed a death warrant for their future existence.
You can fool people in the U.S. and Israel (mostly pro Israel) with absurd justifications for this horrific tragedy but there are 2,000,000,000 Muslims in the world watching this in absolute horror that want nothing more than the ability to stop it. They are praying for it to stop. Their prayers for Israel to stop are going unanswered. For many, the message they are getting this month strongly supports this below:
https://palwatch.org/page/9022
I hate posting the link to that repulsive, offensive message. But I am telling you with absolute certainty that if just 1 out of every 1,000 of the worlds Muslims that are horrified and powerless at the moment, embrace that message to the point of it incentivizing them to dedicating their lives to actions to rectifying the situation........that's 2,000,000 Muslims. 1 out of 10,000 is still 200,000. Israel's actions here are providing extremely high octane fuel to inspire the most extreme form of Antisemitism(I still love Israel).
After Israel wins this war in Hamas, they will have lost the more important one badly. It makes me sadder than you can know to realize this and be the messenger in these posts to others that, like me love Israel.
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https://www.dni.gov/nctc/ftos/hamas_fto.html
MEMBERS
Between 20,000 and 25,000
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Even if Israel kills most of Hamas, 20,000 dead is a much smaller number than 2,000,000 incentivized, which is 100 times bigger.(or even just 200,000 incentivized). I'm so sad to see the future being etched out by the events of this month )-:
Even if you are convinced that Israel is totally justified by these actions, there is no denying the interpretation in the Muslim world right now. Being unwilling to understand the minds of people that we disagree with is 100% responsible for how we got here BEFORE the horrific attacks of Oct. 7. Israel continues to be unable to contemplate that, with Israel's allies sending out war propaganda, hoping your brains too, will be unable to comprehend that.
Most of these apply below:
The basic principles of war propaganda
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Basic_Principles_of_War_Propaganda
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Let me repeat this again. I have always been extremely PRO Israel and am still very PRO Israel. I was taught growing up that the Israelite's are Gods chosen people and I have Jewish friends, that include 2 at the forum, who I feel enormous love and respect for.
However, the fact based truth is the authentic truth.
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Israel, clearly understands how Hamas incentivizes terrorism by indoctrinating their youth into the antisemitism cult/religion.
How ironic that they are the ones providing the most powerful incentivizing dynamics.
https://jcpa.org/paying-salaries-terrorists-contradicts-palestinian-vows-peaceful-intentions/
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The events of this month in the Middle East, will serve as the biggest fund raiser and support for groups like this to add more members (and their children) than what currently exist in Hamas. It may take many years for that to bear fruit but there's no denying it.
The only hope is that when this is over, Israel does a 180 and lifts up and rebuilds Gaza and for the first time, treats them the way they wish they themselves would be treated as human beings. Empowers them with the same freedoms and human rights that we should all have. This, with the assistance of the United States and others. Just a fraction of the money wasted to kill people and destroy Ukraine would make tremendous POSITIVE progress and make the world a much better place, instead of wrecking mentalities and killing people for self serving political agenda's.
With the politicians we have now, that's an impossible dream but that's the one that I have. It would be very effective to offset the current damage and put us on the RIGHT path.
Israel Warns of Hamas CHEMICAL Weapons; Iran THREATENS Israeli Cities
CYANIDE ~ 35 MINUTES
Before the war, there were 500 truck loads of supplies coming into Gaza to provide residents with their needed food, water, fuel and other essentials for living.
Gaza was considered by the United Nations to be an open prison.
Israel has 100% control of what goes in and what goes out of Gaza.
The United Nations says that the 2 million people there need a minimum of 200 truck loads of these bare essentials to get by.
Since October 7th, Israel, in full control is only allowing 15-20 truckloads in for 2 million people. NOT allowing in 90% of the humanitarian essentials. Food, water, fuel. Power has been lost and hospitals are running out of fuel to run generators because Israel is intentionally not allowing it in.
They are doing this to Impose the most inhumane conditions imaginable on the entire population.
We read the headlines about the number of innocent people killed and injured and homeless but that is just the tip of the iceberg.
This is like a humungous concentration camp, where many of the 2 million people are being starved and weakened. No fresh water. No electricity. No escape.
Just stuck with no essentials indefinitely as the bombs fly and Israel completely controlling this incredible violation of every ethical standard for treating human beings Regardless of the reason for doing it.
The vast, vast majority have done nothing wrong. Half of them are children. Their is no justification for imposing these conditions on a million children.
Those children will grow up to be adults. When they do, they will still be tortured by the horrible memories of what Israel did to them and their family and everyone around them In October 2023 until however long Israel decides.
That‘s the next MUCH bigger source of the next generation of Arabs that consider Israel to be the devil and desire to eliminate them……..that’s if Israel survives past the next few years to the reaction from the current adult Arab world.
You know it’s true.
Blame Hamas for all of it if you want but this was actually the objective of Hamas. Provoke The much more superior country of Israel into taking these actions to show the world what they believed already from the way Israel has treated the people in Gaza.
Like they are sub human. People treat their pets far better than how Israel treats the Palestinians.
Now, the rest of us with eyes wide open for the very first time can see it.
Yes, I’m well aware that everybody here disagrees with me. But nobody can deny 1 iota of it because it’s the fact based, extremely inconvenient truth.
How we’ve all forgotten the similar disastrous response to attacks on our soil on 9-11-01.
The Iraq war.
But this is so much different because the Iraq war didn’t threaten our existence and was not an impulsive, knee jerk reaction that featured atrocities to such a large number of children.
There are no fresh water lakes and rivers for drinking water,.
they need fuel to power the desalination plants for drinking water. And in ground wells to pump the water out. They need fuel to power the hospitals that are 150% full and collapsing without it.
Israel refuses to let any fuel in because they want that to happen.
barbaric!!!
Can you imagine If the US did that to the entire country of Iraq during our war on them To weaken their army?
If you treated your pet this way and got caught, there would be criminal charges against you, possible jail time if it was this egregious of a display of ethical depravity.
I’ve heard beheaded babies mentioned many dozens of times now, especially on Fox. Yes, that is about hte most evil thing a person can do and Hamas, as I stated, if I could choose would all be tortured slowly to death to pay for it.
But why no mention of Israel imposing horrible torture as they are to the entire population of 2 million people, Half of which are children?
They don’t want you to know because if you did it would change minds about supporting these exact actions as part of Israel’s right to defend itself.
MIKE ~ DID YOU SEE MY POST.?.. 2ND ONE UP FROM YOUR LAST ONE?
LOL I GOTTA STOP TRYIN' TO READ...
Thanks, Jean. I’m away from home and will watxh it later.
1 out of every 100 people in Gaza belong to Hamas.
20,000 of them out of 2 million. They are brutally punishing/torturing 99% innocent people so they can punish the other 1% and deceiving us with statements about minimizing casualties to innocent people.
Are we to think that Hamas is giving up their share of the diminishing water and food to the women and children.to minimize the suffering to that group??
its probably the exact opposite!!
Women and especially growing, very vulnerable children are taking the WORST losses from loss in nutrition and psychological damage which is the exact plan of Israel in cutting off 90%+ of the basic survival supplies that they need in Gaza.
MIKE ~ DID YOU SEE THE VIDEO CUTWORM POSTED?
UNCUT INTERVIEW: Survivor of Hamas music festival attack describes terrifying escape
Hey Mike,
I think you’re making some valid points even if going a bit overboard. Regarding going overboard, you keep quoting the Gaza Health Ministry as if it were anywhere near credible. You can bet they’re strongly inflating the stats they report. Keep in mind that what comes out of them is controlled by Hamas. Also, keep in mind that they falsely reported 500+ Palestinians killed in a hospital bombing by Israel, a huge fabrication. It turns out what really happened was that a misfired Palestinian Islamic Jihad missile hit the parking lot with far fewer killed.
Thanks, Jean for copying the interview with 1 person from Israel again which I already watched the first time when cutworm posted it.
I've already condemned Hamas dozens of times the past 2+ weeks.
Right now, the biggest concern is 2,000,000 innocent people in Gaza, half that are children that are having horrible war crimes perpetrated against them and it being sold as Israel defending itself.
Thanks Larry, we already covered that but its ok to bring it up again.
Gaza hospital explosion
30 responses |
Started by WxFollower - Oct. 17, 2023, 5:54 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/99753/
Israel did get blamed for 1 rocket that it didn't send.
What about the other ~4,999 REAL missiles that have killed 5,000+, injured 15,000+ and left 1 million homeless or without power, almost all innocent people and half children.
With regards to whether those numbers are credible or not, believe what you want, which is what everyone does when they align with one side. I try to use the best data out there and will gladly use any reliable source that you want to chip in with.
Does it make a difference if we had the 5,000th death already or whether it's next week? Or whether 1 million are homeless or whether it's 900,000.
Do you question whether over half the population is children, meaning half the victims are children?
I'm just providing the best authentic facts available, using the best sources of data and would love to use even better data if you have it.
Do you also question whether Israel is not allowing 99% of the trucks of supplies with basic food, water and fuel in, that are lined up outside the border?
Why do you think they are doing that?
Is CNN wrong with this story below? How do you justify this horrible war crime below?
16 hr 45 min ago
Gaza is more than 7,200 truckloads short of the aid usually imported since Israel launched a blockade on the strip, according to CNN.
The territory normally receives 455 aid trucks per day, the United Nations said. Therefore, 7,280 trucks should have arrived between October 7 and October 22.
Hamas militants carried out a deadly attack on Israel on October 7, killing 1,400 people and kidnapping hundreds of others.
The Israeli government has since imposed a complete siege on food, fuel and water entering the Palestinian enclave. Rights groups have warned much more aid is needed in Gaza, where more than 2 million civilians are at risk of severe dehydration and starvation.
Amnesty International said Israel's "collective punishment" of civilians amounted to a war crime.
Two small convoys entered Gaza over the weekend, totaling 34 trucks between them, meaning that the territory is 7,246 trucks short of regular deliveries.
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I get that you guys are not able to comprehend the horrible truth of what's really going on because its such a mind boggling, state sponsored war crime and your favorite sources are not telling you what I am. And it's extremely difficult to admit when an entity that we align strongly with is perpetrating a horrible atrocity on innocent people/children.
Please show me data or evidence that anything that's been posted in this thread is not accurate.
If I'm going overboard, Larry that should be pretty easy to do.
Actually, I started out 100% on Israel's side for the first several days. However, applying the scientific method compelled me to look at facts which contradicted what I wanted to believe. Investigate them, fact check them. And what turned out is that they were AUTHENTIC.
MIKE ~ I'M NOT TAKING SIDES. I'VE SAID IT BEFORE & I'LL KEEP SAYIN' IT: "THERE'S NO COUNTRY THAT HASN'T INFLICTED HEINOUS CRIMES."
I'LL REPEAT MYSELF >>>>>> THERE IS REALLY NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT ~ GOD WILL BE THE DECISION MAKER... ALL IN DUE TIME ~ HIS TIME, NOT OURS
EZEKIEL 5-7 ~ "5 Thus saith the Lord God; This is Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst of the nations and countries that are round about her.
6 And she hath changed my judgments into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that are round about her: for they have refused my judgments and my statutes, they have not walked in them.
7 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because ye multiplied more than the nations that are round about you, and have not walked in my statutes, neither have kept my judgments, neither have done according to the judgments of the nations that are round about you;
Thank you, Jean!
Hey Mike,
My point is that the Gaza Health Ministry appears to be WAY off by a factor of at least 10-15:1 for that hospital as regards the number dead (besides it not even being shot by Israel). If this one was off that much, how do you know that the cumulative stats for the other Palestinian casualties aren’t also way off? Yes, I fully realize that any civilian deaths are tragic. But the numbers being reported are also very important, and Hamas’ number one goal is to make Israel look as bad as possible to the outside world. Don’t forget that they want Israel to be obliterated as that is in their charter. Plus they want also more Palestinians killed to make Israel look bad as they’re using Palestinians as human shields.
THIS IS FROM 8 YEARS AGO.
Palestinians: What will happen to the Israelis when you take back Palestine of 1948 (Israel)?
Thanks, Larry.
I see your point about this 1 event and think that there's also a good chance that they are also inflating the number of deaths and injuries.
However, I've read sources from the other side, especially from Israel and the U.S. and they paint a completely different picture than the current humanitarian crisis. I assume that those are the sources you are using. You should post those or other information for a discussion to bolster your case beyond 1 event.
One reason that strongly supports the higher numbers is the population density in these areas. It's 3 times higher than the highest population density of the United States. 2 million people in a pretty small area. It would be impossible, with that many strikes to avoid high casualties.
This makes a high death and injury count inevitable. Again, just another authentic, indisputable fact/data, not me going overboard.
I greatly look forward to any additional info that contradicts that or supports a different view. I know this is extraordinarily tough for you, Larry and appreciate the conversation.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/11/middleeast/maps-population-density-gaza-israel-dg/index.html
Seriously, on that last paragraph. I know that you and your brother pray and follow the Jewish faith daily, so this must be extremely upsetting and my posts, for sure make it even worse.
I'm so sorry for doing that to you and joj and consider you good friends. But the truth is good to know, sometimes even more so by those pained the most from knowing it.
I hope you'll continue to keep in mind my special fondness for the Jewish people in our world and I attribute this to bad judgment by the flawed humans making decisions for Israel right now and those bad choices being justified by convincing sounding propaganda.
As you can see here. The highest population density areas are the ones getting hit by Israel, so it makes sense to have high casualties.
http://www.geo-ref.net/ph/pse.htm
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-rcna121849
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Who did or didn't cause the hospital blast is old news getting in the way of the current critical news about Israel's acceleration of its intentional, abominable war crimes( a couple of orders of magnitude worse than what it suffered) against innocent people, half of which are children with the United States and other Western countries absurdly calling it Israel defending itself.
State/country sponsored war crimes on 2+ million, almost all innocent people trapped with no place to go, no food, no water, no electricity and no longer sufficient medical treatment with the majority of hospitals intentionally collapsed and getting worse.
Hard to believe that a developed/civilized country would even contemplate doing such a despicable thing to 2 million people and even more mind blowing that allies would insanely call it self defense.
The world is filled with evil and the worst of it sometimes hides behind the propaganda and lies of entities selling their atrocities with convincing sounding, manufactured, supposedly justifiable motives/reasoning.
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https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/25/israel-hamas-war-updates-and-latest-news-on-gaza-conflict.html
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Wow!
Now, they're trying to censor the truth being told about how bad it is in Gaza, calling for a resignation of one of the key LEGIT sources(United Nations), which is calling for a cease fire and increase in humanitarian aid. Trying to convince us that information which doesn't back Israel is coming from evil, Hamas.
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https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/24/middleeast/israel-hamas-gaza-war-tuesday-intl-hnk/index.html
They want him to resign over comments like this{
Emotions ran high at the UN Security Council on Tuesday after Secretary General António Guterres appealed for “an immediate humanitarian ceasefire.”
“Protecting civilians does not mean ordering more than one million people to evacuate to the south, where there is no shelter, no food, no water, no medicine and no fuel – and then continuing to bomb the south itself,” Guterres said.
“It is important to also recognize the attacks by Hamas did not happen in a vacuum,” Guterres also said. “The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation. They have seen their land steadily devoured by settlements and plagued by violence; their economy stifled; their people displaced and their homes demolished.”
He said that the “appalling acts” of Hamas “cannot justify the collective punishment of the Palestinian people. Excellencies, even war has rules.”
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We're long past this being debatable about the horrific atrocities being committed in Gaza. Anybody that can't appreciate that this is the most sickening, state sponsored war atrocity perpetrated on innocent people, half of which are children in decades is either cold hearted or in complete denial or has a captured brain from the the lying war propaganda.
It's way past justifying this as a defensive act by Israel. That nonsense would be laughable but that's the wrong word during this extreme humanitarian crisis being caused and justified by some pretty diabolical people(more than just Israel-including Biden) that prioritize political agenda, far above the value of human life and the humanity of people that they consider to be disposable to obtain their objectives.
Thanks a ton, Jean!!!
This makes sense. Israel is willing to kill its own people to get Hamas.
We can see with our own eyes and ears by witnessing the truth in Gaza since October 7th how cold blooded and dishonest the people on one side are(all of them calling the shots in Gaza are creating blatant war crimes).
In Gaza, they are willing to sacrifice the lives of 100+ innocent people, including children (and hostages) to possibly get each member of Hamas.
Apply that strategy to 2 million people trapped in Gaza (including the hostages) and you have the worst humanitarian crisis in decades. Insanely, it's being twisted into being Israel defending itself.
POLITICAL GAIN? HOPEFULLY, IT DOESN'T WORK & BACKFIRES IN HIS FACE!
They claim that Biden's withdrawal from Afghanistan is what embolden Putin to invade Ukraine. That reasoning is completely wrong.
He WANTED Putin to invade Ukraine!!! He stopped the negotiations when Putin wanted an assurance that Ukraine would not become a member of expanding NATO. To stop the war, all he needed to do was tell Putin that Ukraine would not become part of NATO for X number of years. That's it. Seriously!
Ukraine = No NATO = No war with Russia
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/98691/#98891
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/98691/#99443
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/98691/#99446
In Biden's war with Russia, Biden knew he could use the country of Ukraine, the Ukrainian army and just send tax payer funded weapons for them to use, along with propaganda to sell it.
And with no Americans "boots on the ground" that was easy to do because who gives a shisst about Ukrainians and Russians dying? It's American lives that have the most value. Human beings from other countries are disposable and 500,000 of them can be sacrificed for whatever the more important NATO/Biden agenda is.
The core purpose of sieges is to keep human beings hungry, thirsty and cold — so they are weakened, if not defeated.
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For every member of Hamas, there are 100 innocent civilians, half of whom are children.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/live-updates-whats-happening-on-day-19-of-the-israel-hamas-war
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Every day, even every hour makes the worst atrocity in decades committed against innocent people, half children, worse and worse and the diabolical, cold hearted, intentional actions and those supporting it more and more obvious.
I CAN'T RIGHTLY REMEMBER WHEN I POSTED THAT HE'D FIND SOME "REASON" TO BE LIKE HIS PAL, ZEL... AND, POSTPONE THE 2024 ELECTION.
IT'S GETTIN' CLOSE!
I watched 2 different government officials from Israel interviewed about this situation on tv in the last 10 days that made reference to the persecution of Jews during the Holocaust. They claimed that it continues today....wanting us to absurdly believe that what's going on in Gaza right now is because Israel is being victimized by people similar to the Nazi's of WW-2.
Scholars of genocide are criticizing the dangerous use of the Holocaust to justify Israeli mass violence against Palestinians
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/24/israel-gaza-palestinians-holocaust
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My emotions tell me to want to believe........but my eyes and brain see a man refusing to condemn the current, horrific wars crimes in Gaza and repeatedly referring to them as Israel's right to defend itself.
With that mentality dominating, it seems clear that Palestinians are not valued human lives, just more pawns to use for political agenda. Where has the US been the past 2 decades on this issue? Supporting the WRONG policies that caused this the entire time.
+ the fact that this same guy got 500,000+ people killed in Ukraine(and wants 60 billion more to continue the kill-fest), using those pawns/human sacrifices for his war to weaken Putin and Russia for his political agenda.
Stand up for the value of human lives with substantive actions(instead of doing the polar opposite) and I'll start believing.
Let me start out by condemning Hamas in the most emphatic way possible again, so there is no confusion on where I stand, which is with Israel.
However, Israel just got provoked into the biggest public relations disaster in their history because of their extreme over reaction by committing war crimes against the 99% of people in Gaza that are NOT Hamas.(20,000 Hamas out of 2 million people).
And half of those are children. No need to repeat the details of the atrocities again.
The most important thing is what happens next. I am trying my best to be informed with authentic information and keep learning but still don't know many things.
This article makes some outstanding points and helps me to understand the big picture better.
The terrorist group has never been very popular among the people it rules.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/dont-blame-gazans-for-hamas.html
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This below is what saddens me the most about where we have quickly gone because of Israels dastardly actions. This is just one place, of course but there are 2 billion Muslims living in the world as well as others like me, non Muslims that are appalled at what's happening in Gaza.......except they didn't start out with a strong admiration for the Jewish people, like me and are using this event to form their entire opinion about Israel/Jews.
Figures on Friday showed there had been a 1,353% increase in antisemitic offences this month compared to the same period last year, while Islamophobic offences were up 140%.
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The US, home to more Jews than any other country is being bombarded with pro Israel propaganda and comes from a place to start with that gives Israel the benefit of the doubt no matter what. That's not what I'm worried about.
The United States only has 4% of the worlds population. It's the rest of the world that is a grave concern to Israel's future. In this age of technology, there is no UNseeing and UNknowing what Israel is doing to the poor innocent people of Gaza right now, especially vulnerable children. Whether you think it's right or not, it's caused people that are not staunch pro Israel supporters under every circumstance to feel outrage GREATER than the outrage they felt on Oct. 7th.
Because of this, people will mainly remember the BIGGER outrage, especially if it goes on day after day and is sponsored by a state which is held to a higher standard than terrorists.
Here's the metric above again measuring peoples reaction to what's going on right now.
"Figures on Friday showed there had been a 1,353% increase in antisemitic offences this month compared to the same period last year, while Islamophobic offences were up 140%."
It's NOT because people are looking for lame excuses to hate Jews. It's because of what Israel did to themselves this month by their actions.
NEEDLESS TO SAY, BUT... I'M STILL NOT UP TO READING LENGHTHY POSTS. I SKIMMED IT & GET YOUR POINTS.
IMO, THE "PLAYING NICE WITH IRAN & CHINA" IS WHAT SET THIS LATEST WAR OFF. ALL INTENTIONALLY.
I’ll try to not be so wordy, Jean
The main point is that good Jewish people are now targets around the world because of what Israel is doing to 2 million innocent people in Gaza.
This was so predictable and sad. It's one time when I wished badly to be wrong about it coming.
Israel continues to provide the ammo to make it worse and worse 
https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-10-26-23/index.htm
The main United Nations agency aiding Palestinians said Thursday that its operations are being “paralyzed” in Gaza due to the lack of fuel, as Israel continues to insist supplies exist but are controlled by Hamas.
Juliette Touma, the communications director for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), said the agency will be forced to halt operations altogether if fuel – crucial for generating power for hospitals among other things – is not delivered by Thursday.
Speaking to CNN on Thursday, another UNRWA spokesperson, Tamara Alrifai, said: “Whether or not other sources of fuel exist in Gaza is of no direct relevance to us, we are human agency and we should not be begging for fuel to nourish our own operations.”
With fuel rapidly running out, UNWRA is being forced to make difficult decisions over diverting power between bakeries and hospital wards with more than 600,000 people now displaced and relying on a single piece bread each day, Alrafai added.
‘Enough of this’: Hamas co-founder’s son speaks out 13 MINUTES
I DIDN'T QUITE BELIEVE HIM, AT FIRST, BUT... I BELIEVE HE'S TELLING THE TRUTH. AND I PRAY HE IS.
HIS NON-ANSWER TO THE LAST QUESTION? I CAN SEE BOTH SIDES AS TO WHY HE DIDN'T ANSWER.
++++++++++++++++++++
More obvious War propaganda by a man that considers human lives disposable for his political agendas!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Basic_Principles_of_War_Propaganda
We know exactly what's going on in Gaza (and Biden does too) because the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) had 13,000 people reporting AUTHENTIC facts from Gaza. 39 of them have been killed!!!
All the reports and history
https://www.unrwa.org/gaza-emergency
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HERE'S THE TRUTH FROM THE UNRWA:
"If fuel is not received into Gaza, UNRWA will be forced to significantly reduce and in some cases bring its humanitarian operations across the Gaza Strip to a halt. The coming 24 hours are very critical," it said.
Israel has refused to let in fuel with aid shipments, saying it could be seized by Hamas.
More than 613,000 people made homeless by the war between Israel and Iran-backed Hamas are sheltering in 150 UNRWA facilities across the shattered territory, one of the world's most densely populated places.
In the last 24 hours another three UNRWA staff members have been killed, bringing the total to 38 staff killed," said UNRWA.
The enclave is reeling from unrelenting Israeli air strikes, triggered by a deadly cross-border rampage into southern Israeli communities by Hamas militants on Oct. 7.
The World Health Organization said 26 metric tons of medical materials were waiting on the Egyptian side of the Rafah crossing with Gaza for approval to enter the enclave(as Israel continues to block most of the humanitarian aid-food-water-fuel for 3 weeks as part of their strategy imposed on 2 million people in Gaza-blatant war crimes by any standard).
These supplies would cover basic health for 110,000 people, allow surgery for 3,700 trauma patients and give care for 20,000 patients needing treatment for chronic diseases, the U.N. agency said in an email to Reuters.
At the UNRWA shelter, many displaced people voiced despair at the lack of aid. They said they had heard about some U.N. trucks carrying basic supplies into Gaza but very little.
Omar Al-Namara, one of the displaced, said that in the two weeks he had stayed there he had received one 330ml bottle of water, and was sleeping on the ground. "A small bottle of water for each person. Only one since we came here, what shall I do with it? Use it as eye-drops?" he said.
Namara said some displaced people were being forced to buy gallons of water outside the compound because UNRWA wasn't giving enough for families. That water, he said, was "polluted and undrinkable, but we drink it because we are thirsty."
Nahed Abu Taaema, director of Nasser Hospital, said he had received many dead people since Wednesday night, mostly women and children. "We have received 77 martyrs, most of them women and children, since last night," Taaema said in a statement carried by Hamas's Al-Aqsa radio station.
The losses are being felt by all Gazans in every way.
The uncle of Palestinian boy Elias Abu Shammala, who was killed in an Israeli air strike, carried his body in his hands to a grave accompanied by relatives and friends. The uncle said the boy died of his wounds in hospital because officials were unable to send him outside Gaza for treatment.
The border crossing with Egypt was closed.
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Joe Biden knows this is going on. Here in the US, we don't hear a word about this. Only that "Israel has the right to defend itself" or "the information coming from Gaza is unreliable"
It's one thing if a war crime happens inadvertently or carelessly from, let's say indiscriminate bombing like they are doing when targeting, what they claim are key Hamas sites(facts suggest NON Hamas sites are being hit too with almost all the fatalities NOT being Hamas).
It's different, when the war crimes ARE THE MAIN OBJECTIVE. Coming up on 3 weeks of starving and INTENTIONALLY depriving 2 million innocent people(half of them children) of water and energy to run hospitals, desalination plants/well water pumps.
These are some really sick dudes that consider their lives to have much greater value than the lives of other disposable human beings......and the majority of the world outside of the propaganda captured minds in the United States KNOWS IT!
Because most of the world knows the truth, the future of Israel is seriously imperiled and good Jewish people around the world are paying the price as targets of hate crimes because of Israels intentionally diabolical treatment of 2 million innocent people.
I hold the current idiot government and military running Israel responsible.
And it saddens me tremendously )-:
As I’ve said earlier despite being a full supporter of the right of Israel to exist and thus protect itself as well as get needed outside protection from allies, I’ve never liked Bibi due to his being too far right/a hardliner. OTOH, I’ve been a supporter of moderates such as Barak, Peres, Rabin, and Meir. When they were in charge, Israel had much more international support. Thus, a change in leadership soon would be quite beneficial imho.
Thanks much, Jean. I didn't know that.
Crude is +$2.50 right now, so just watching crude earlier, told us something bad was up. I don't think too many people want to be short over the weekend. If Iran jumps in, there's unlimited upside to the damage.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/99482/#99938
Don''t forget, Iran is on the verge of enriching Uranium to have nuclear weapons within days, according to some sources. THERE IS NO STOPPING THIS!
Iran's stock of uranium enriched to 60% is now almost three times the roughly 42 kg that by the IAEA's definition is theoretically enough, if enriched further, to produce a nuclear bomb
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Honestly, I can see the view from Israels point of view defending itself. I've imagined it 100+ times in my head and haven't stopped doing that every day.
However, the objective facts using an open mind, that dial in Israel's response with horrible war crimes/atrocities are 2 orders of magnitude worse than what can be justified by defending Israel using reasonable standards.
Think about this. When Israel invades Gaza to go after Hamas targets, will the 99% non Hamas residents of Gaza be grateful to Israel, for being there to free them from the horrible grips of Hamas control of Gaza the last decade+ ??
Or do they now consider Israel to be the devil on a scale that dwarfs any previous negative view?
2 billion Muslims on the planet and others with less intense traumatic experiences NOW SHARE THAT VIEW to some extent. That cannot be overstated.
Now the ground war, with Israel having a tremendous advantage will last XX number of days or even months. I suspect that they will finally allow humanitarian aid in. During that time, outside of the pro Israel countries that are trying to censor the truth about whats happening, it's hard to imagine a momentum shift that will suddenly be supportive to Israel's cause.
The one impossible hope is if Israel came out with some sort of shocking statement that acknowledged their own faults with a remorseful tone and a substantive plan to restore basic rights/freedoms and prosperity to the people of Palestine after they eliminate Hamas control.
Since that has been the complete opposite of everything they've done, odds of an asteroid strike destroying earth might be higher )-:
But I'm just stating what has a chance of working. Outside of that, we're going to be left with 10 times the number of people in the world that want to destroy Israel than we had a month ago.
And millions that take it out on innocent Jews and countries like the United States for supporting war crimes and treating Palestinians like shist and like worthless pawns, instead of human beings for their cold hearted political agenda.
But Israel will always be able to claim that they won this war against Hamas in 2023 for sure.
Biden has drained a great deal of SPR oil for political agenda and has depleted our weapons stockpile for his war WITH Russia that has killed 500,000 people(while NOT trying to negotiate peace).
We are so much weaker now than we were 2 years ago.
Do you think Americans will be gung ho for sending millions of brave American soldiers to fight, yet another Middle East war.
All of the previous wars since WW-2, have cost astronomical amounts of tax payer funds and countless lives, while accomplishing nothing. In fact, being COUNTER productive.
Are we to blame for what Israel is doing to innocent people in Gaza?
When the Middle East strikes out against Israel for its war crimes/atrocities, as Israel's closest ally, we are obligated to help them.........but knowing that, Biden still calls this "Israel has the right to defend itself" and that he doesn't trust information coming out of Gaza because its inconvenient and blatantly contradicts his war propaganda.
Biden's speech a couple of weeks ago was about the U.S. being the world leader for democracy and freedom as a narrative to get 100 billion more in aid for his agenda.
An authentic world leader would stand up strongly to war atrocities/crimes and not excuse them because one of his allies is the perpetrator.
Even more so because he's the president of the UNITED STATES and it's OUR COUNTRY THAT IS AND WILL PAY THE PRICE FOR THIS!
No maybe about that. IS AND WILL are the operative words and its a direct result of him failing to provide authentic, ethical and responsible leadership in the global theater and for the United States.
Thank you, Jean!
I wasn't watching the news as much today, but when I did on Fox, they discussed this new development as well as Israel's potential plans, Hamas, Iran, Hezbollah, the hostages, the U.S. plans and other items. But not 1 word about the war crimes to the innocent 99% of people in Gaza and their need for humanitarian aid which is being blocked by Israel. Never came up.
It's as if they don't matter..........and they don't when it comes to this type of propaganda. The media is nothing more than mouthpieces for their self serving/biased agenda or for the government.
We should note also, that nobody ever discusses peace about the war with Russia, using Ukrainians. It's just an accepted part of our daily lives. Dozens to even hundreds of people getting killed in this or that battle today, nothing new.
When they are Russians, we are supposed to be happy because Russians are evil people and the objective of sending 10s of billions in war equipment is to kill Russians and hurt Putin.
Not to obtain peace. To kill Russians and destroy their army/country. We've completely accepted xxx,xxx Ukrainian human beings dying because they have less value than American lives. Ukrainian and Russian lives are disposable and must be sacrificed for the much more important political agenda.
Dead Russians are one of the best success measuring metrics. The more of them killed, the happier we should be.
EXACTLY THE SAME mentality, regarding the insignificant value assigned to the lives of people living in Gaza.
If 10+ innocent people, including women, children and UNRWA humanitarian workers devoting their lives to helping others must die for every member of Hamas.......that's perfectly fine. Israel's right to defend itself trumps the basic human rights standards for 2 million extremely low valued human beings that must be sacrificed for the political agenda.
When they were in charge, Israel had much more international support. Thus, a change in leadership soon would be quite beneficial imho.
Missed this earlier, really good point, thanks much, Larry!
Hopefully they will be replaced. What is the view for people in Israel on their leaders?
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August 1, 2023
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After Hamas attacks that have left more than 1,300 dead in Israel, fury over security and intelligence failures has erupted into public confrontations between Israeli citizens and government ministers.
UN resolution urging immediate Gaza ceasefire passes with overwhelming majority
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Grave miscalculation by Israel of the global and regional consequences coming. Tough spot for them with no good solutions, just some worse than others after causing the current dynamics from over a decade of neglecting to address a horrific, festering human rights issue for Palestinians, including Gaza residents living in the open air prison environment run by Israel.
However, to gauge the current global frame of mind (regardless of who you think is right or wrong or what the propaganda in the U.S. states) note below that there were only 14 countries that were against this resolution out of 179 voting countries, including Israel and the United States.
The VAST majority of countries by a count of 165 to 14 did NOT hold the same position as Israel and the United States in this vote(including the 45 that abstained).
Here in the U.S. and in Israel with the vast majority of the world's Jews, all the propaganda on stations like Fox are telling us the one sided story, entirely from the perspective of the 14 countries below and NOT the other 165.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_country
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The reason that my views here disagree with readers is because they/you live in the United States where opinions have been formed by one sided propaganda that represents around 5% of the global population. I'm busting thru the propaganda to pass on the authentic global mentality about this. Every bit of it is based on rock solid facts/evidence that are always provided.
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by-country/
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The consequences of these profound actions/war atrocities that do not line up with 95% of the global population, some of which, like the 2 billions Muslims who are extremely offended and violated cannot be overstated!
A continuation down this path, if it still results in ethically depraved decisions to cut off 2 million innocent people, including half being children, from food, water, fuel and medical supplies (in addition to killing and injuring massive numbers that include dozens of humanitarian workers devoting their lives to helping innocent victims) is likely to provide ammunition for continued escalation by the 95% that do NOT back this response.
Disagree with that if you want but the facts above speak to the truth and I've been extremely pro Israel my entire life until this month. I remain supportive of Jewish PEOPLE, along with love that does not falter because of the disastrous actions by Israel.
This includes continued condemnation of diabolical Hamas's actions on Oct. 7th. However continuing to use that to justify atrocities that impact 10,000+ times more people (1,300 vs 2,000,000) is blind rage/revenge but retarded logic from a country that, ironically features more brilliant chess masters %wise than any other.
Israel will win all the battles coming up with Hamas in 2023 but they already lost the more important war for the moral high ground. All they can do now is to minimize additional damage (which seems extremely unlikely-based on their current mentality) and come up with a miracle plan to lift up Palestinians ASAP..........but it might already be too late )-:
Story by Lizzie Porter • 24m
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I don't have that link above yet. This is only getting worse and worse with only 5% of the global population supporting these current actions )-:
Addressing hundreds of thousands of supporters, Erdogan accuses the West of being the main culprit in the war on Gaza.
The stat box below doesn't list the million+ home displaced people in Gaza with 2 million having almost no food, water and fuel for going on 3 weeks. Now, most of the hospitals are shut down too. This is targeting everybody, including 99% innocent people/children and why Turkey's leader made the extreme comparison to the Holocaust which greatly offended Israel.
There is no way to know how bad this will get. The reality is that it 100% depends on Israel's actions. Whether you support this as Israel defending itself or not, how bad this gets will be a function of their additional actions. It's possible that, because the world already knows most of it and each day isn't telling us that much new, that the additional outrage, while continuing to build every day may peak at some point.
Hey, that's just pure optimism because the facts suggest otherwise )-: with the downside being potentially catastrophic. One can speculate on some horrible potentially much larger scale conflicts breaking out here with emotions running extremely high and the powerful, divided motivating forces at play. )-: )-: )-:
MIKE ~ "Hey, that's just pure optimism because the facts suggest otherwise )-: with the downside being potentially catastrophic. One can speculate on some horrible potentially much larger scale conflicts breaking out here with emotions running extremely high and the powerful, divided motivating forces at play. )-: )-: )-: "
THE NEXT THING WILL BE: EVERY BUILDING WILL HAVE TO HAVE A "SAFE ROOM", OR A BUNKER.... IN THE LAND OF THE FREE.
I CAN ALMOST HEAR IT, NOW ~ "THE 2024 ELECTION WILL BE BY MAIL-IN BALLOT ONLY, IF AT ALL. IT WILL BE TOO DANGEROUS TO BE OUTSIDE YOUR HOME."
