Automotive thinking re: EV
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Started by wglassfo - May 15, 2022, 4:52 a.m.

It has been a puzzle to me why automotive cars will be produced in mass when I see problems getting enough electric available to charge huge numbers of cars trucks etc.

My nephew works for a big automotive Co. heavy into producing EV

I knew I would see him once Covid got over but by golly I saw him this week

So after a bit I approached the EV production of so many EV

He said the EV was driven by the gov't standards for emission controls and the only way ahead was electric to eliminate emissions. Limits had been reached for emission control on ICE engines and electric was much cheaper to produce and also meet emission controls in the future. This is long term gov't emission standards that will apply as emissions continue to get harder to comply with, using an ice engine

The automotive Co. he works for is fully aware of your cost to bring your home charging system up to quick charge for medium to long distance daily trips, but that is your problem and possibly a gov't grant to cover the cost, as some some units can run close to 5,000.00 depending on what you want or need, especially if you need large amounts of electric for two vechicles. Most houses need expensive systems to bring in large amounts of charging power, while others need much less.

They are also aware of the problems of over load on the grid if everybody buys Ev

They are also aware of down side of wind and solar energy

But: That is not their problem. If coal or NG powers the electric plant, then so be it. That is not their decision. They are trying to meet emission controls on cars and trucks they sell, and that is all they need to do.

That is a gov't problem as they are not responsible to provide the electricity to power electric engines

All they have to do is comply with gov't emission controls now and in the future

If electric doesn't work, they sell the EV inventory and go back to ice engines, but they need EV to compete n early demand stage for Ev. Later sales will likely be a mix of EV and electric which they can easily produce

They know EV is doomed to failure with out massive changes to energy availability but so what?? Not their problem

They can produce EV or ICE and let some body else worry about the energy problem

That's how it was explained to me and I suppose the automotive industry is keeping both engines available according to demand and energy

Cover your base requirement and then wait to see what happens is my take away from this conversation

By 7475 - May 15, 2022, 9:01 a.m.
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Wow Wayne,

 That is enlightening and  endorses many suspicions  I have.

I will liken the manufacturer's situation to that of an employee (or subordinate of some nature) whose "boss" (against the advice of the employee) insists a task is to be done in such a manner that makes no rhyme or reason. Then the employee throwing up their arms in disgust and saying "The boss ain't always right ,but he's always the boss. And I need to keep my job."


By metmike - May 15, 2022, 1:02 p.m.
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That was one of the best, insightful ways of describing the situation that I've read.

This industry is being sold based on things that will be almost impossible in the future based on the laws of physics/energy, economics and supply/resources as we know them..........unless a new renewable energy form, like hydrogen is discovered with the ability to completely transform the way that we acquire cheap energy.

Even with wind and solar squeezing out every % of efficiency they can, they are still diffuse forms of energy compared to extremely dense fossil fuels.........which serve as its own battery that never loses energy when stored in your gas tank, for instance.

The age of enlightenment is also the age of using information to make society retarded for self serving interests of greedy people/gatekeepers, as well as those with ideological imperatives (United Nations)

Why Are Electric Vehicle Companies Worth So Much Money?

While the stock valuations of electric vehicle, or EV, companies have always been difficult to parse, thanks in large part to Elon Musk’s personality effect on Tesla stock, it’s been clear for some time EV stocks operate in some alternate sphere of economic reality, where companies with no revenue and no product somehow sell stock worth billions of dollars based solely on the potential that one day they will compete with and possibly even displace some of the most recognizable brands in the world.

“This is pure magic,” Peter Atwater, a former financial advisor who now teaches confidence-driven decision-making at William and Mary, told Motherboard. “People are investing in dreams.” There is a palpable sense of FOMO for those who didn’t get in on Tesla when it first went public in 2010 at a valuation of “just” $1.6 billion. It is now worth more than $1 trillion (yes, with a “T”). And now they don’t want to miss again.

metmike: We are living in a manufactured reality. Seriously! Made up based on energy/physics, economics and science fiction.

By metmike - May 15, 2022, 1:17 p.m.
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Concerns for mineral supply chain amid booming EV sales


The sales of electric cars are booming, but the rising demand for transition minerals will pose a challenge for the mining industry.

Who controls the EV supply chain?


Another challenge for the future supply chain is that unlike some fossil fuels, many of the minerals essential for EVs are produced in just a handful of countries. Over half of the supply of minerals needed for EV batteries comes from the top three producing countries.


In 2020, Australia was responsible for 48% of global lithium production. For graphite, China is the world’s main supplier, with nearly 79% of global production originating from the country. In the same year, the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) supplied 69% of global cobalt.

By metmike - May 15, 2022, 1:22 p.m.
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With regards to rare earth metals, China has most of them!

Infographic: China's Rare Earth Monopoly is Diminishing | Statista

By metmike - May 15, 2022, 1:25 p.m.
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Note the amount of reserves below:

World Mine Production and Reserves
(2020 Estimates)

(Metric Tons)
(Metric Tons)
United States38,0001,500,000
Burma30,000not available
Burundi500not available
Madagascar8,000not available
South Africa--790,000
Thailand2,000not available
Other Countries100310,000
World total (rounded)240,000

REE production chart

By metmike - May 15, 2022, 1:29 p.m.
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By metmike - May 15, 2022, 1:34 p.m.
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China and US pledge climate change commitment

"China has pledged to peak its emissions by 2030"

metmike: What the heck sort of pledge is that? They continue to increase CO2 emissions for another decade, negating any cuts by the US and then some.


To make it easy to visualize, quantify with's the way that it looks on graphs.

This is under the Climate Accord as it was designed. Look how (planet killing-according to them) CO2 emissions still soar higher because poor countries get to gush out all that planet killing pollution. (its actually a beneficial gas and they know it or else this agreement would be a "death sentence" for planet earth)

Screen Shot 2015-03-03 at 07.26.30

     China/India ramping up coal production

                                        Started by metmike - May 13, 2022, 2:40 p.m.

By metmike - May 15, 2022, 1:39 p.m.
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The blue print for the future, dealing with electric cars and energy sources  absolutely guarantee's that China will not just overtake the US but will run circles around us with their domination in natural resources.

The US is clearly #1 in the world in coal and we are doing this to coal:

   Killing Coal            

                            14 responses |              

                Started by metmike - Nov. 21, 2021, 10:57 p.m.    

The US is blessed with massive amounts of far more than any other country in the world.

This isn't just theoretically, that China MIGHT dominate, it's an absolute, near 100% chance by design major domination by China based on the authentic facts of science, energy, metals/supply and economics.

If some yahoo scientist in Southern Indiana can show you these legit facts based on authentic KNOW that the ones controlling the agenda, not only have the same data but they are intentionally steering us towards this destiny.

Ironically, they have us bent out of shape because Russia produces X amount of oil and ng........which we can easily replace with our own production if they encouraged it(instead of making long term plans to shut it down) and tell us NOTHING ABOUT CHINA, that is crystal clear above.

They don't tell us the truth about China............BECAUSE THEY ARE TRYING TO MAKE IT HAPPEN!

Here's more:

metmike: The current fake climate crisis on our greening planet, is really a climate optimum for most life.

The crisis part is made up based on a theory that only happens with intentionally flawed computer models(proven to be 42% too warm with their equations using CO2), The real world is a climate optimum.


Just like the manufactured world they have that runs on solar and wind, using all electric vehicles. This is a just a wild, speculative theory..............SOLD AS a reality.

They key elements (no pun intended) involving energy and materials is designed to massively elevate China into world dominance and cause the US to be dependent on China and no longer have energy security.

By metmike - May 17, 2022, 3:38 p.m.
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Another element to this RENEWABLE energy.

Sure the wind will still blow at times in 30 years and the sun will always be shining for part of the day forever but the energy then,  won't be captured by today's wind turbines and solar panels. 

We have to REPLACE the  wind turbines every 20-25 years and solar panels every 25-30 years with new ones and batteries every X number of years.

Every new generation of this fake green energy just doubles and triples the damage to the planet.

By bear - May 23, 2022, 12:48 p.m.
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i have a friend that works at a solar comp.  they produce panels.  (he is in engineering).  he says that not all panels are the same,  some loose efficiency faster than others.   i forget the exact figures, but it is something like this...

their panels will loose maybe 1% or so per year,  after about 30 yrs or so they will still put out power.  and the power output will reach a floor.  so after maybe 50 years they will produce power, but maybe only at 60% of the original power output.  he claims at some point they will reach 50-60% and stay there forever.  so he says they are less efficient, but the idea that they quit working is false.  

the higher probability is that they get destroyed by a storm, or something.  

what this means is... if i need 1kw of power, and i install 1kw panels, eventually i need to buy more power from the grid as the panels put out less.  

and then there is maintenaince issues.  in the desert, dust will greatly reduce efficiency.  you have to clean them regularly.  that takes time and money.  companies that put in solar farms have to bring in sheep to keep the weeds under control.  

if you need 1kw of power, and you install 2kw,  the power company pays you almost nothing for the excess.  

i have 2 neighbors who work at the power company, and they know the financial figures very well, and they will not put in solar panels.  they say it is not worth it.  people do it, only because they want to feel good, thinking that they are saving the planet.  

By WxFollower - May 23, 2022, 1:42 p.m.
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 Since December, there have been announcements regarding two huge EV/battery plants from different manufacturers coming to the state of GA expected to bring in a whopping 15K+ new jobs. Here is the very recent 2nd one:

 Is this a good thing or not? Opinions? Other than the obvious that it is excellent for Governor Kemp politically and more than anything else for the local economies as well as those who want a faster transition to EVs from gasoline powered vehicles, what do y'all think? One negative I thought of for the local areas is a lot of trees likely being cut down via clear cutting to make room for at least this 2nd development. (Of course, they might have been cut down eventually for a different development.) Also, what about the increased use of gasoline to power the gas powered vehicles for commuters to get to this plant? My point is that there are always some negatives to every positive.

 Other opinions?

By metmike - May 23, 2022, 3:57 p.m.
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Thanks bear!

For those not familiar, bear lives in S.Arizona, close to the epicenter for the best sun/weather to take advantage of solar power for individual consumers.

Thanks for the input!. What your friend stated makes sense and I'll take your word for it.

Solar power to provide a significant amount of the electricity really makes sense to me in many places, especially where you are. However, if your local power company is not interested, then there are few better places then Tucson, AZ for solar power on that scale.

Here's an article on recycling solar panels. For them to make any sense at all, recycling is a must.

The Opportunities of Solar Panel Recycling

Wind turbines are something else(tremendous negatives) and I've made those points on other threads.

                Wind Farms            

                            Started by wglassfo - May 11, 2022, 11:37 a.m. 



You sure have alot of friends that know alot of things(-: