Marketforum snafu won't allow responses to the old thread, so I started a new one here. This is the old one.
Results of long-running Cyber Ninjas putative audit of 2020 election
0 responses
Started by metmike - Sept. 23, 2021, 8:47 p.m.
PHOENIX (AP) — The long-delayed results of a much-criticized review of 2020 election results in Arizona’s most populous county — which a lawyer for the Republican-controlled state Senate told a judge late last week would be delivered this week — are now set to be publicly unveiled in the Senate at 1 p.m. Friday.
metmike: Wow, they finished before the next election..........I can't wait (-:
Previous threads here:
Arizona clown show continues
2 responses
Started by metmike - Aug. 23, 2021, 12:36 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/74108/
Maricopa audit
8 responses |
Started by wglassfo - July 7, 2021, 9:30 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/72061/
Arizona recount
5 responses |
Started by metmike - June 3, 2021, 5:34 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/70449/
State election officials try to stop election audits
6 responses |
Started by wglassfo - May 26, 2021, 4:22 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/70014/
Arizona Election audit. My favorite story so far.
22 responses |
Started by TimNew - May 21, 2021, 7:30 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/69771/
"A Republican-led audit of the 2020 election in Arizona’s largest county found that President Biden actually won by a larger margin than the county’s official results show.
The review revealed that Biden won 1,040,873 votes in Maricopa County in November, according to a draft audit report, 99 more votes than the certified ballot count last year showed. Former President Trump’s vote total, meanwhile, dropped from 995,665 to 995,404 after the audit — a difference of 261 votes.
In total, the audit found that Biden beat Trump by 360 more votes than previously recorded, according to the draft report. The official audit report is slated for release on Friday afternoon. A copy of the draft report was posted online by the political news outlet Arizona Agenda.
The months-long audit was conducted at the behest of the Republican-led Arizona state Senate, which hired a Florida-based firm called Cyber Ninjas to lead the effort. Nonprofit groups set up by defenders of Trump’s false claims that the 2020 election had been stolen helped fund the effort, pumping millions of dollars into the forensic review of the vote in Maricopa County.
The draft report’s conclusion that Biden’s lead in the county was actually wider than previously thought is likely to be a disappointment to Trump’s allies, who have raised allegations of widespread fraud and systemic irregularities in the elections in Arizona and other key states.
Nearly a year after his loss to Biden, Trump has continued to claim without evidence that the 2020 election was rigged and that he is the rightful winner of the contest. He’s urged Republican officials in other states, like Wisconsin and Georgia, to conduct similar audits."
GOP-backed Arizona election review confirms Biden 2020 win
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/573798-trump-blames-media-after-arizona-audit-finds-biden-won
I might add this link for consideration.
Here again, Mike, while I respect your analysis, I think you are missing the big picture. If I read you right, you have been saying that there has been no evidence in this matter. I don't disagree - but, IMHO, this is only part of the story. Again, IMHO, you ignore the massive amount of wealth and power making sure that no evidence CAN be presented. I have been following this closely for a very long time now, and when talking to anyone who has not been following this for a long time, I have to admit that I don't know where to start. Maybe after harvest when I get back out to the Hills and settle in, I can force my mind to work on this long enough to try to explain some of what I think I've seen.
But, unfortunately, not now . . .
cfdr,
I totally respect your wisdom based on experience and usually critical thinking.....and am especially thrilled to see you back posting here.
On this topic, you believe that metmike is being naive.
metmike looks at EVERY source from both sides and gathers objective data and authentic facts that are reliable, while being devoted to practicing the scientific method, which compels me to, first, assume that I am/could be wrong and then trying to prove that I am wrong to myself........before continuing on with the assumption that I'm right.
This is actually how I came to believe in Ivermectin and started using it!
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/74636/
Most people assume they are right and go to places that are just echo chambers,......repeating the same messages and reinforcing the same belief systems for birds of a feather that never challenge themselves by applying the scientific method sincerely.
They go to places that tell them what they like/want to hear, that are populated with like minded thinking individuals
You can usually tell by the sources they provide here with their information.
Not always bad sources(some are bad much of the time though)...........I look at them too and dial them into the big picture but greatly biased sources that 100% of the time give the perspective of one side, often an extreme version of that side.
I like reading and hearing those views............but am not naive enough to just believe it when there is tons of authentic OBJECTIVE information which contradicts it.
A naive person looks at just one side of the issues.
I look forward to seeing your evidence too cfdr!
That's absolutely my favorite posting of all here.
When somebody shows legit evidence that I am wrong.
I love it because this is the best opportunity for us....anybody to learn something!
Closed minds circulate the same ideas/beliefs.
Open minds allow new information in that affords the best opportunities for learning new things!
Trump loves to just make up sh*t to see where it goes, especially if it is good for publicity/business. It doesn’t mean he believes it. He just wants to see how many others he can get to fall for it. This is nothing new.
From “The Art of the Deal”:
“One thing I’ve learned about the press is that they’re always hungry for a good story, and the more sensational the better,”
and:
“Bad publicity is sometimes better than no publicity at all. Controversy, in short, sells.”
This is the made-up widespread 2020 election fraud in a nutshell. He’s just making up sh*t.
6 Takeaways From Findings of Arizona Election Audit (dailysignal.com)
Auditors also raised concerns about potential duplicate voters, with names and birth years appearing more than once on some ballots.
Thanks much Tim, great thread!
This 100% confirms exactly what I've been saying from the get go. Lots of cases of fraud ..........very similar to the fraud in the past, NOT organized, NOT featuring one party or entity rigging/fixing the results that would have a major affect on the outcome. On the potential result changing fraud we had more scrutiny in history to confirm the results as the most secure ever.
Re: Re: Re: Poll - Who won the Election?
By metmike - Nov. 11, 2020, 7:24 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/61115/#61121
It definitely means we should be doing much better. Non picture voter ID is required in AZ so pix Id might help? Other changes needed.
What do you think?
Previous discussion:
Voter I.D.
21 responses |
Started by wglassfo - Sept. 24, 2021, 12:18 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/75313/
A few points.
1st, if you listen to the news, all you hear is that the audit widened Biden's lead. They all seem to be leaving out the rest of the detail. I even watched one discussion where they castigated Trump for pointing out the bad coverage.
2nd, not sure how you are concluding that this was not an organized effort. I don't really know either way without diving deeper into the data. If the majority of errors fell one way or the other, that would at least suggest some level of organization.
Finally, yes, we need to do better. Photo id is a no brainer. Ballot harvesting should be illegal. And mass mailing based on the contents of voter rolls is an invitation for fraud. One more thing, a regular audot and correction of voters rolls is essential, but I doubt we'll get that.
They castigated Trump?
Why wouldn't they?
Tim,
The errors went both ways. Look at the number of errors and how much the votes were changed. 99+ votes for Biden and 261- votes for Trump. The individual errors were in the multiple thousands........"As many as 5,047 individuals voted in more than one county, for up to 5,295 additional votes."
If it was organized by one side, the change in votes would have been much more lopsidely in favor of one or the other using your own criteria. The change in the results was tiny compared to the errors.
You are misreading the report.
The actual ballot counts were pretty close. They verified that the ballots were counted correctly, with minor variations that favored Biden.
They also had serious questions on thousands of ballots that perhaps should have not been included in the count. They were not excluded from the above referenced count.
You make the case for organized voting fraud by one side and I'm listening.
If an audit like this can't find it......... and now we are 10 months after the election...........I'll use the facts and assume it didn't happen.
People speculating that it still "could have" happened are actually ignoring all the facts that showed it didn't happen with regards to every realm that was investigated.............and this is just one of them.
The system will always have people that try tricks to manipulate votes.
Maybe some individuals could affect, let's say....... 100 votes with an effective scheme.
But there is no evidence of a widespread party based strategy which could game the system to have a widespread impact to flip the election to their candidate. Nothing even in the far distance vicinity of that taking place anywhere based on everything that we DO know.......which is alot.
This is what Trump and others continue to insist on to try to discredit the results of him losing to make people think there was cheating to beat him, Donald Trump who was obviously the choice of those he's targeting with his propaganda.
When people think they were cheated, it REALLY upsets them!
That's the entire objective..........and dog gone it......it's working!!
Trump made this crap up (he knows it isn’t true) and it has created chaos because he’s fooled so many gullible people into believing this fairy tale.
On Trump being a psychopath:
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/68888/#68914
By metmike - May 4, 2021, 7:37 p.m.
"Say hello.............again to the man on a mission to obliterate the Republican party. A true self serving psychopath that has captured the minds of tens of millions of good, patriotic Americans.
This is exactly what makes the worst psychopaths so dangerous. They are so dang convincing to so many people. In the modern age, Trump is using the communications platform technology to the max."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/68888/#68915
By metmike - May 4, 2021, 7:45 p.m.
" I was fascinated by this around a decade ago and read several books, listened to CD books about it on my long trips to Detroit to visit my parents....psychopaths.
Let's find out more to see why Trump is truly a psychopath."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/68888/#68916
By metmike - May 4, 2021, 8:11 p.m.
'The Hare Psychopathy Checklist': The test that will tell you if someone is a sociopath
This test was designed by the guy that authored most of the books that I read about it , so I feel that he is an elite authority.
metmike: "The test score by itself is not designed to always irrefutably tell if a person is a psychopath. However, any person that gets a 20 or higher is at a very high potential for being a psychopath.
Somebody at just 20 for instance can have some extreme traits that make them as bad as a person that gets a 30. At 30, it's almost a no brainer that you are either a psychopath or have an extreme personality disorder which make you anti social and possibly dangerous.
I scored Donald Trump a very strong 28 on this scale. Strong, meaning that some of his maximum score points in categories should be even higher....but the test doesn't allow for more than 2 points for each category.
It's actually not even close on diagnosing Trump as a psychopath.
His personality characteristics greatly exceed the threshold of what defines a psychopath.
Up until recently, I had decided to not make things worse by posting on this but his behavior is just getting so ridiculous. When will it end? Please go away Donald Trump and stop preying on millions of people.
This is my purely scientific view, and nothing personal but is based on being very fascinated by and studying this field for a number of years.
To be fair, I believe many politicians have some psychopathic traits. Pelosi, Schiff, Obama and both Clintons have some strong traits but are in a different/lower class than Trump who stands at the top in US political history.
Biden is NOT a psychopath.
He has a few psychopath traits but maybe not more than the average politician. He seems to have enough goodness and empathy/caring features to keep him out of the psychopath's club.... in my opinion that is."
I'm pretty sure that almost everybody in the democratic party and the MSM realize that Trump is their best ally to help them stay in power..........and it just keeps getting better for them.
They can cause a major crisis on the southern border and look totally incompetant handling that, along with the withdrawal from Afghanistan and we have a COVID crisis going on..........which in 2020 sunk Trumps ship.
But Biden's boat continues to float because it's being powered by Trump.
No matter how many things get messed up in 2021, all they need to continually rescue Biden are stories like those this weekend...... of people flocking to Trump rallies as he insists that the latest audit shows that he won the election.
The MSM and Democrats don't have to defend their policies or do anything...........just show Trump and he automatically gives Biden a huge boost in ratings.
Actually, he gives everybody that isn't for Trump a huge boost in ratings as his credibility and following gradually loses people, even some that were previously in the Trump cult.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/31/trump-gets-little-support-from-major-republican-donors.html
https://apnews.com/article/ap-poll-trump-republicans-future-ba85f8d2a572c553b621f86e991ee197
A new poll from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research captures widespread unease among Republicans over everything from the direction of the country to the state of American democracy and, in particular, President Joe Biden. Just 15% approve of the way Biden is handling his job, and 66% continue to say the Democrat was illegitimately elected, a lie perpetuated by Trump that underscores his persistent grip on GOP voters.
Republicans have plenty of concern about their own party, too. Fewer than half of Republicans, 41%, say they are optimistic about the GOP’s future. Just 13% say they are “very” optimistic. And one third, 33%, say they are pessimistic.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/12/politics/cnn-poll-donald-trump-republicans/index.html
metmike: I can't stress enough. Having Trump as the GOP's leader is the biggest gift in history to the very weak dem's.
It's responsible for the dem's having control of the White House and both houses of Congress right now.
In the voting booths across America last year Trump lost not because people wanted Joe Biden as their president. They just wanted ANYBODY BUT Donald Trump. Since the election, Trump has caused even more people to hate him(mostly from his own party because his hate factor was maxed out from the left).
If Trump suddenly vanished, NONE of his supporters would support democrats.........they would all unite behind the new leader in the party.
Instead, we have a split party that now has many millions of never Trumpers in Trumps own party and the rest wanting Trump to lead them.
The democrats love it!!
Its the democrats, libertarians and anti Trump republicans all against the Trump republicans.
I am saying you can't draw conclusions regarding an organized effort based on the data available so far. I am not saying there is, or there is not. I am objectively looking at what data is available,. I Have no idea what you are doing.
I am also saying that thousands of the ballots cast in Arizona are questionable, very likely invalid. There is documented evidence showing why they are questionable. We don't know how it would have affected the outcome without a closer look at the data. I am looking for the actual #'s but have not found them.
As an aside, whether or not Trump is a psychopath has no bearing on this discussion. We are talking about results of an audit. 99+% of your response so far has little/no bearing oin the discussion at hand.
"I am saying you can't draw conclusions regarding an organized effort based on the data available so far. I am not saying there is, or there is not. I am objectively looking at what data is available"
Tim,
If the unprecedented, massive amount of data after any election that's been available so far to prove this conclusively STILL leaves you unconvinced after almost a year, then there's nothing that I or anybody else can provide to convince you........so you will be unconvinced to your grave.......just like 10's of millions of other republicans that are unhappy with the result.
"As an aside, whether or not Trump is a psychopath has no bearing on this discussion. We are talking about results of an audit. 99+% of your response so far has little/no bearing oin the discussion at hand."
In case you didn't notice, there was somebody else in this discussion and I was responding to his extremely relevant comment.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/75326/#75488
By WxFollower - Sept. 27, 2021, 4:55 p.m.
Trump made this crap up (he knows it isn’t true) and it has created chaos because he’s fooled so many gullible people into believing this fairy tale.
I am talking about the specific data outlined in this last audit. You brought your forgone conclusions to the discussion. And apparently, no amount of data will give you the slightest pause.
And any aspect can be injected into any discussion, we see it all the time here, but don't labor under the gross misconception that Trump's alleged state of mind has anything to do with any audits unless he personally conducts the audit.
Thanks Tim,
I base almost every statement and opinion that I’ve ever made here on data/solid facts/evidence and have explained the scientific method numerous times ..... to always look to try to prove why they might be wrong to themselves and if unable to do that, then proceed with some confidence that they are probably right.
And at the same time, encourage others to point out what they might have wrong which is the best way to learn new things for those with an open mind.
Which is why I’ve encouraged those not convinced that this election did not have systemic fraud to show the data that supports that there was, so that I have something to base adjusting my opinion that there wasn’t widespread fraud......because I looked very, very hard for months and could not find any.
So I’m still waiting for somebody to show evidence of organized fraud from one party.
Fraud like they found in AZ confirm d exacrly the type I believe we’ve had in every election and I looked at what was found there too.
So my plea continues the same.
Show me some evidence that contradicts the massive data from every source to date that there was systemic organized fraud .....pretty please. I will look at it.
Stating that I ignored data but not telling me what I ignored is no help.
Please tell me....What did I ignore?
I agreed with what they found for the reasons mentioned several times now.
I already explained my statements about trumps state of mind were in response to wxfollowers relevant point that brought that up.....why keep acting like I didn’t say that and telling me again that it was misplaced in a thread that I started?
You will note that I’m not attacking you with my responses, just providing clarity and asking for you to try to do the same please.
There was evidence of Fraud in Arizona. We've seen lots of evidence from Fulton County. I've already stated that we need to see more specifics to determine a coordinated effort by one party. But even if the vast majority of errors favor one side or the other , it's not legal proof of a consipiracy. For that, you need documented evidence of communication. And we've seen how easily such communications can be lost or dismissed. *See everything from IRS to Hillary.
But so what. The results of the election will never be overturned.
But, we have Rafensberger, (You remember , the guy who called it the most secure election in history) demanding resignations from the Fulton County elections board, from several levels. Apparently, he can look at data and evidence and change his mind.
We have several new laws being written that will help to make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen again. Side note. Want to see indications of organized voter fraud? Look at the source and intensity of the efforts to oppose these laws. (VOTER ID IS RACIST!!!!).
And best of all, Biden should cure the electorate of Dem leaning for quite some time. If not, if the electorate has become that useless, voter laws really don't matter