I was just thinking about our heroic “frontline medical workers”
They work all day long in an environment, laden with dangerous viruses. And they tirelessly take care of their covid patients, around the clock. They are true heroes. They are risking their lives
When the vaccines first arrived, they were in short supply. Quite naturally, they gave those frontline workers priority in getting their jabs. And that was the right thing to do!
Now, the vaccines are readily available for all. By now, all of the frontline workers have been fully vaccinated for quite a while…. so I thought
A while ago, we already discussed an issue about 100+ healthcare workers in Houston, who lost their jobs, because they refused to be vaccinated (Ref b)
I wondered then…. why would anyone lose their job, for a vaxx that’s proven to be safe? Well, 100 is a tiny number compared to the large number of hospital employees. .
Today, I am quite shocked to read that in CA, among the 10s of thousands of healthcare workers, nearly 25% have refused to take the mRNA jab (Ref a)
I can understand that some regular folks are hesitant to get the shot. But frontline workers?????
We have seen the horrible pictures of covid patients suffering, unable to breathe... but only on the screen. These nurses are there, with them, all day. They are risking their lives helping others.
Why would they refuse to protect themselves?
We scan through the internet and gather information, and we form our opinions, based on comments and data we believe to be true and accurate. However, none of us is a virologist or mRNA specialist (as far as I know).
On the other hand, the healthcare workers are right there… on the battlefield. They know all the stuff that we are being told, and what we read, plus the things they see in the battlefield.
We have to ask…. What do they know that we don’t know???? Just wondering...
https://abc7.com/healthcare-workers-vaccinated-hospitals-covid-19-vaccine-how-many/10928131/
Please note that my post does not contain any personal opinions, nor does it quote the opinions of experts. My post does not contain any recommendations regarding vaccinations.The referenced links are not “far-right, tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist sites”
The two linked sites contain factual data (unless these data are considered misinformation because it was I who posted them)
I believe that a person with an open mind should think about the above facts, and ask “why?”
I'm about to take my 2nd of 2 Pfizer shots here at the 3 week point. Can anyone think of a reason to delay it? I figured I might as well be fully vaccinated and thus get the fullest protection ASAP.
Phizer to be first approved but moderna more effective...go figure...cdccp, fauciccp etc logic again I suppose
Just got part of an interview with a guy named Kirklin. He says the death/100,000 are currently at the lowest since numbers have been kept, from March 2020 til July of 2021. He also says the stats on minors are horroric in terms of accuracy v seniors. Says any kids presented with respiratory problems are automatically covid no matter what. Also says that we have past the peak in the delta variant and wonders why {other than political of course} why big gov is pushing all this new panic. In fact there have been no new variants identified since 2020. Do not shoot the messenger I am just reporting.
"Says any kids presented with respiratory problems are automatically covid no matter what. Also says that we have past the peak in the delta variant and wonders why {other than political of course} why big gov is pushing all this new panic. In fact there have been no new variants identified since 2020. Do not shoot the messenger I am just reporting."
1. mcfarm, with no source or links and you being our only source, it must be viewed as YOUR opinion. At least if you provide us with a source, you only have to be viewed as agreeing with the opinion and I can obliterate the actual source. So where did you get it from? I always like to know that too, so that I can obliterate the actual source using science, in view of an audience that thinks it's a good source.
2. We are past the peak in the Delta variant. Then why are Delta cases soaring higher in the US and world right now? https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/73060/
3. Why is big govt pushing all this new panic? Easy to answer that one/no brainer ........we are having a massive new surge and they are trying to save lives..........100% confidence! Just look at the many of dozens of my posts, mainly to anti COVID vaccine Gunter that proved it.
4. In fact there have been no new variants identified since 2020.
That's misleading. Please give us your source. I can't stop you from going there and believing it but I can obliterate their lies and junk science.
"Japanese researchers found the Lambda variant, which was initially discovered in Peru and is now spreading throughout South America, is highly transmissible and more resistant to vaccines than the initial COVID-19 strain."
"Despite these early studies, previous studies have shown vaccines, including those available in the United States, work against “variants of concern,” such as the Delta variant. The vaccines also prevent serious illness, hospitalization and death in most breakthrough caseswhere a fully vaccinated person tests positive for the coronavirus.
For example, a U.K. study published in May showed two doses of the Pfizer vaccine were 88% effective at preventing against symptomatic infection of the Delta variant and 96% effective against preventing hospitalization."
yes I know MM. Sorry and I was going to mention that. Just checked and the interview has not been posted on the net yet. It was promised to be sometime today. I hope they post it. Its the largest radio station in the Midwest with great hosts so I believe they will post it. This is another case of an individual sounding great at first glance but you may find errors because you are way more versed in this stuff then me.
Gunter,
Your using health care workers refusing to get vaccinated as evidence that they know something that only health care workers know(a secret about the COVID vaccines that the rest of the non health care workers like you and me don't know).
I actually know a couple of people in a supervisory position in that field. One manages a large skilled nursing chain in Indiana,
That person's opinion(who does have a medical degree and the people refusing...almost NONE have medical degrees) is that these people refusing are either permanent anti vax or anti COVID vax because they are extremely ignorant and go to the same sites that you do to fill their brains with junk, anti COVID vaccine crap.
Let's actually check to see what DOCTORS are doing Gunter. Would you say that DOCTORS might know a bit more about vaccinations than health care workers, the majority of whom have no medical training in this field?
"CHICAGO — The American Medical Association (AMA) today released a new survey (PDF) among practicing physicians that shows more than 96 percent of surveyed U.S. physicians have been fully vaccinated for COVID-19, with no significant difference in vaccination rates across regions. Of the physicians who are not yet vaccinated, an additional 45 percent do plan to get vaccinated.
The national AMA survey is the first to specifically collect data on practicing physicians’ COVID-19 vaccination rates. The survey was conducted June 3–8 and showed an increase of more than 20 percent for physicians who have been fully vaccinated for COVID-19 compared to a May 2021 Medscape poll.
“Practicing physicians across the country are leading by example, with an amazing uptake of the COVID-19 vaccines,” said AMA President Susan R. Bailey, MD. “Physicians and clinicians are uniquely positioned to listen to and validate patient concerns, and one of the most powerful anecdotes a physician can offer is that they themselves have been vaccinated. You can take it from your doctor: the COVID-19 vaccines are safe and effective. With COVID-19 vaccines readily available and approved for all people 12 years old and up, we urge you to get vaccinated—take the single most important step you can to protect yourself, your family, and end the COVID-19 pandemic.”
metmike: You are always welcome to keep pushing the anti COVID vaccine bunk here. Everytime you do, metmike learns something new and hopefully a few lurkers.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/72971/#72972
Gunter,
Just think of the massive amount of things that you could have learned here over the last couple of months if your mind had been open on this topic?
Thank mcfarm,
Ordinarily it wouldn't be this important but there is waaaay too much unchallenged bunk being spread around and poisoning people's mind's about COVID and COVID vaccine science.
Great decision Larry.
I have an autoimmune disorder that would make me vulnerable for some sort of autoimmune disorder from the vaccine..........if that was a serious risk.
Here is the way I thought about it.
Not only would COVID possibly kill me because of my heart arrhythmia (and my wife because she has a breathing issue) but if you want to REALLY create an out of control autoimmune response...........get the actual disease!
That's actually what kills alot of people with COVID. Over production of cytokines from their immune systems getting locked with the pedal to the metal.
The bang for MY buck, with regards to risk/protection seemed to be at least 1,000 times in favor of getting vaccinated.
I actually went EARLIER than I was supposed to.
I was still 64 when I got the first shot earlier this year when they were only on ages 75+.
I had to talk my 85 year old mother in law into getting the vaccine because my medically uneducated sister and law and her husband go to the same sites that Gunter goes to and they caused her to be afraid.
Alot of people have flu like symptoms after the 2nd shot for a day.........which is very expected because, by design, its activating a protective response(after your body realizes its a false alarm and it not REAL COVID-the response goes away in every case)
I had ZERO reaction. Same with my mother in law. Funny thing, we both agreed that we have other physical problems that sometimes cause flare ups and it might make it hard to tell the difference (-:
Anyway, I scheduled an appointment for me at the same time as her and nobody said that I was too young......they let me get the shot early.
It's a silver lining to the immeasurable grief that has accompanied the virus.
While states like Missouri end a second month enduring a surge in COVID-19 cases as the more contagious delta variant spreads, public health officials across the country are hearing the same story from an increasing number of people getting the vaccine: someone they know recently caught the virus and the experience was unsettling.
"We don't want to see more people getting sick as a driving force to get people vaccinated, but we know the case counts and more people in the hospital will play a role in that conversation," Dr. Sam Page, St. Louis county executive, told ABC News.
MORE: Vast majority of ICU patients with COVID-19 are unvaccinated, ABC News survey finds
Missouri has seen an increase of nearly 560% in new cases and 205% virus-related hospitalizations since early June -- staggering increases which have been exacerbated by the low number of residents who are fully vaccinated, just 41%.
"We really need higher vaccination penetration in our communities to slow this down," Page said.
"It is extremely important for us to move to get those individuals their boosters and we are now working on that," Fauci said on a press call, adding that immunocompromised people may not be sufficiently protected by their existing COVID-19 vaccinations.
Fauci said rising cases resulting from the spread of the contagious Delta variant in the United States can be turned around with additional vaccinations. (Graphic on U.S. outbreak)
The Biden administration has been eager to thaw opposition by some Americans, including those who distrust the government, to taking the vaccine as the highly infectious Delta variant sweeps the country."
metmike: I will be one of the first in line to get a booster shot!
p.s. Since Fauci and Biden said it, I assume that means a couple of people here will automatically reject it.
Hmmmm. What does that remind me of exactly a year ago. TDS only instead of Trump, you just replace it with Fauci or Biden or the government, or CDC or WHO.
Again, I'm just an objective, independant scientist posting authentic science and data here, it's almost everybody else here that uses their political affiliation to decide what to believe.
MM do not how to transfer the show here. But if you google kirklin on tony katz radio show all of Katz's shows come up......hit "episodes" then 2 or 3 down comes "tony Katz hour 3"
His show today for hour 3 was about masks...never mind that was yesterday.
I didn't hear him mention it on todays show but clearly this is just a far right radio guy giving his opinions on stuff.
https://tonykatztoday.fireside.fm/992
I was hoping there would be a medical source for that information but since it was almost all wrong, no credible source from Tony Katz, instead, just him giving commentary...........which is what his show is about....... explains it totally.
This is exactly whats messing up people the most. Unqualified people giving really bad opinions and often cherry picking outlying anomalies as evidence........when the authentic evidence totally obliterated them.
I know almost nothing about this guy. I might agree with him on 95% of his other commentary so I won't judge him. In fact, in my listening to him briefly, there were a couple of non COVID opinions of his that I agree with.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Katz
However, on COVID and the vaccine he is a really, really bad source for credible authentic science.
Objective science is my area of expertise.
Thanks mcfarm!
does Fauci have an investment in moderna?
Thank you all for your replies. My simple question was…
Why are such a huge number of frontline workers refusing to get vaccinated. Unlike regular folks, they are in contact with infected people all day long, and they are risking their lives..
Metmike had the answer….They are refusing, because they are ignorant. 10s of thousands of medical staff are ignorant. OK, that settles that.
********
Other tidbits of commentaries in this thread…
[Referring to the Delta]
"We really need higher vaccination penetration in our communities to slow this down,"
Apparently this writer has not kept up with the news (do I dare call him “ignorant”?). Gibraltar has an incredible increase of 2,500%, and they are 100% vaccinated. How are we going to penetrate this community more?
The most vaccinated community has the most incredible increase in cases? Does this tell us something?
****
The data from Israel showed already in June that there was a problem with the vaxx… half their hospital cases were vaxxed, and the other half was unvaxxed…
Does this give anyone the idea that the vaxx is protecting them?
****
One of the links offered here reports good news… infections are on the rise, vaccinations are on the rise also. That’s good news!
Hmmm, earlier, they inundated us with graphs showing infections going down, while vaccinations were going up… at that time, that was good news… proof that the vaxx causes infections to go down.And now it’s the other way around?…. ah well, we can twist data all we want.
***********
Everywhere we read, we hear dramatic increases in Delta cases, in spite of so many people being already vaccinated. In Cape Cod, the Delta hit vaccinated people more than unvaccinated ones… this is quite strange, and I don’t want to get into this anymore… however, at least one should come to the conclusion that the Delta is not paying much attention to the vaxx.
So, the answer to fight the Delta is… inject more of the stuff that doesn’t work very well?
Something else that MIGHT be at work here with regards to the refusal of frontline healthcare workers refusing to get vaccinated is religious views.
My understanding is that (at least in the US), individuals may refuse to get vaccinated based on religious belief.
However, I would suspect that the number of healthcare workers that falls into this category is a minority among the overall number of healthcare workers that are refusing to get vaccinated.
WxFollower,
I would highly advise against delaying your 2nd Pfizer dose if you can get it on the prescribed 3 week schedule.
The one thing I will warn you about (and you will likely have already heard this from several sources) is that you are very likely going to feel sick the day following your 2nd dose. This happens to pretty much everyone to varying degrees.
I had the Pfizer vaccine and the day after I felt exhausted and ill. I never threw up or anything like that but the entire day I just felt tired and achy. The following day I felt much better but still felt a little 'off', that sort of feeling one might experience after having felt truly terrible the day before and they are second guessing if they do in fact feel that much better. The 3rd day following my 2nd dose I felt completely fine and have been fine ever since.
Gunter,
Your neurotic obsession with this is very unhealthy and its keeping you from obtaining an education about the no brainer science.
You are really hurting yourself and I continue to be very concerned about you.
My comment on this was from somebody that supervises 100+ people in the position that you were referring to in this link...... at a large skilled nursing home facility. They feel:
"these people refusing are either permanent anti vax or anti COVID vax because they are extremely ignorant(about the science) and go to the same sites that you do to fill their brains with junk, anti COVID vaccine crap."
You also failed to respond to this:
AMA survey shows over 96% of doctors fully vaccinated against COVID-19 (which should be 98%+ now)
Gunter,
I'm being extremely tolerant and patient with this but am most concerned that a very intelligent(in most situations) and previously objective person would repeatedly embarrass themselves over and over because their mind has been slammed shut and they can't even let in 1 iota's worth of authentic science in because of stubborness and having their brain completely captured by extreme right conspiracy theory sites that have convinced them to never believe anything from the left, Fauci, Biden, CDC, WHO or even now, 98% of the practicing medical doctors in the US. ..........on medicine.
Instead, you search around the internet to find any outlying anomaly you can and use things that represent a tiny fraction of the science to go against 100's of times more authentic information/facts that truly represent the science from all the credible sources/scientists/doctors saying the opposite.
Wow, man. You are getting worse, not better.
What could you possibly be thinking? That everybody is going to wake up one morning and go............WOW, Gunter had it all right and we all had it wrong. We should have listened to him. He was way smarter than all the worlds top scientists and 98% of the medical doctors.
This is a serious question. What is your objective with all these posts and where do you think things are headed?
I want you to answer those questions, then I will tell you my answers to those same questions.
Last week, when I contacted you by email, you said that you thought it was to ban you. Is that what you are trying to do?
I have no problem letting you post this crap because it's so easy to expose with authentic science which causes it to totally backfire but understand why other sites don't have a fact checking scientist on board that can do that and its best to censor uncontested, dangerous bs, like what you give us here.
Yes, metmike, that survey of the doctors is nice. It makes a big point in your favor (assuming the doctors answered it truthfully)
However, so far none of your comments has explained why the vaxx doesn’t work on the Delta as it did before.
It’s a fact that all these replies here ignore.
******
You call me obsessed. I don’t consider myself obsessed at all. However, I do respond to criticism when I feel it’s uncalled for.
Who would know more about the PCR test, than its inventor? Who would know more about the mRNA jab than its inventor? So, I listened to them. Is it wrong to gain knowledge from the top scientists in their field? I trust my family doctor, but does he know as much about mRNA jabs than the inventor of the jab?
Does this make me brainwashed???
I listened to them, not to become an expert, but to be able to think for myself, to listen to the propaganda with a big grain of salt, and to be able to make decisions.
****
Dr Fauci was mentioned several times in this thread.
“…..p.s. Since Fauci and Biden said it, I assume that means a couple of people here will automatically reject it”
You are correct…. quite frankly, I was surprised that Dr Fauco didn’t recommend triple masks and kneepads to fight the Delta
But….as the saying now goes, whoever is against Dr Fauci, is against science.
Wow!!!
That’s how far it has come!
"Who would know more about the PCR test, than its inventor? Who would know more about the mRNA jab than its inventor? So, I listened to them. Is it wrong to gain knowledge from the top scientists in their field?"
Gunter,
I already busted you in making up explanations that made no sense that you claimed came from an expert and asked you more than once to provide us with that source and what they said.
Now you are doing it again!
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/72986/#73002
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/72986/#73003
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/72986/#73004
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/72986/#73006
If you now suddenly have been able to find this mRNA inventor/source that you could not provide earlier...........then let's see it/them.
Otherwise, everytime you bring it up, I will show that you were once again unable to provide the source..............again......so that you fool nobody but yourself with that claim.
You appear to continue to be afraid of something because you don't understand it. You described it totally wrong in the thread above and attributed it to an un named expert. Then, you can't provide us with that expert and their quote that you are supposedly using.
This is how the vaccine works Gunter:
Thanks for the advice, Mike and madmechanic. I just got the 2nd Pfizer shot just under 2 hours ago. Unlike the first one 3 weeks ago, this one didn't hurt at all! The first one hurt real bad for about 2 seconds and then the arm was sore for a couple of days. So far, it isn't sore.
Madmechanic, I had Covid in January. The shot 3 weeks ago gave me in addition to a soar arm 18 hours of bodily symptoms during hours 18-36 like up to 101 fever, tiredness, a few aches, and loss of appetite. It felt like a moderate and very short version of the actual Covid...nothing I couldn't handle well though I did take 2 ES Tylenol twice for the fever.
My wife supervises several dozen employees. Very nice people really.
Almost none of them have been vaccinated. The owner has set a mandate. She told them today, that starting next month, they will have to be vaccinated or wear a mask at work(good for them).
One of her key employees, when finding this out, exclaimed "Oh no, the COVID vaccine is the anti Christ" "When they give you the shot, they put a microchip in you"
Do you believe this also Gunter?
Most of her employees also believe that the election was stolen from Trump and of course they go to far right sources to get their information.
Why targets of deliberate deception often hesitate to admit they’ve been deceived
"In Missouri and other red states, vaccine refusal on partisan grounds has become a defining marker of community affiliation. Acceptance within some circles is contingent on refusal to cooperate with the Biden administration’s public-health campaign. Getting vaccinated is a betrayal of that group norm, and those who get the shot can legitimately fear losing their job or incurring the wrath of their families and other reference groups.
Sociology solves mysteries like these by zeroing in on problematic relationships, not the decisions that individuals make in isolation. Many of the people refusing safe, effective vaccination amid a deadly pandemic are enmeshed in a very distinctive type of relationship that sociologists have been studying for more than 70 years: the con job. Con artists gain social or financial advantage by convincing their marks to believe highly dubious claims—and to block out all information to the contrary.
"COVID-19-related cons have become big business, not just for right-wing media outlets that have gained viewers while purveying vaccine disinformation but also for small-time social-media grifters and enterprising professionals. The New York Times recently profiled Joseph Mercola, a Florida osteopath whom the paper described as “The Most Influential Spreader of Coronavirus Misinformation.” Four years ago, the Federal Trade Commission forced Mercola to pay nearly $3 million in settlements for false advertising claims about indoor tanning beds that he had sold. In February of this year, Mercola told his millions of followers on Facebook that the vaccine would “alter your genetic coding,” and promoted his line of vitamin supplements as an alternative to ward off COVID-19.
To outsiders, the social dynamics of the con appear peculiar and irrational. Those caught up in it can seem self-destructive and, frankly, clueless. But to sociologists, including me, who study fraud, such behaviors obey a predictable logic."
There is no health care worker secret knowledge. They are not getting vaccinated for the exact same reasons that NON health care workers are not getting vaccinated.
They go to the same anti COVID vax sites as Non health care workers..........and they are no smarter.
https://www.aafp.org/journals/fpm/blogs/inpractice/entry/countering_vaccine_hesitancy.html
How are you feeling today Larry?
It's sounds almost like the person who administered your first shot might not have been well trained.
I remember how concerned you were that your older brother, that lives with you and has several health issues would get COVID.
How's he doing?
My son had COVID last year, when he was 32 last and also got 1 shot earlier this year to boost his immune system even more.
His COVID was bad. Sickest of his life by a wide margin. Had a 102 fever for a week.
When he went back to work, he said that it felt like he weighed 500 lbs because he was so weak. He actually lost 20 lbs. He got out of breath easy and couldn't smell for weeks.
Took 2 months to recover.
I'm pretty sure that the same thing would have killed my wife and I.
And people keep repeating that COVID is just like a bad case of the flu.
Yeah, right, like a 160 mph, cat. 5 hurricane is just like a bad case of a hurricane.
How about a cat. 5 hurricane is like a 80 mph cat. 1 hurricane, on top of another cat. 1 hurricane = 160 mph!!
https://www.weather.gov/mfl/saffirsimpson
Wind damage to objects in the path of the wind(with damage going up exponentially with wind velocity) and virus damage to a person's body can't be scientifically equated but you get the figurative point.
Thank your for your many replies.
Again, my original question was, why are so many healthcare workers refusing the vaxx??? Even today, when the vaxx has now been around for more than 7 months???
When I have a busted plumbing, I call the plumber, because I assume, he knows better how to fix it than myself.
By the same token, I would assume that healthcare workers, with all their experience in dealing with Covid patients, should have a bit of work experience with this virus and the vaxx. (not college education, but work experience)
As you stated earlier, nurses refuse the jab, because they are ignorant and uneducated.
In your last reply, you state…
“They [the nurses] go to the same anti COVID vax sites as Non health care workers..........and they are no smarter.”
I am sure, most nurses would resent these comments.
*****
Thank you for the link in your last reply. This one gives other viable explanations why so many refuse the vaxx.
This article also stated that, in Israel (a country that was hit hard by the Delta), only 78% of their doctors were willing to take the Covid vaxx shot, and only 61% of their nurses were willing to take the jab… which brings us right back to the original question in this thread.
Also please note that this article was posted in April, before the Delta hit Israel really hard.
I must assume that today, with the Delta being the reigning virus and their quoted vaxx efficacy being much lower than for the old Covid,, vaccine hesitancy in Israel will be higher than the number quoted in this link.
*****
You wrote “They [the nurses] go to the same anti COVID vax sites as Non health care workers..........and they are no smarter.”
Only one quick comment about this last sentence… I have made these arguments before...
A large portion of the population experiences the world as presented by CNN, MSNBC, etc. They know that Russia got Trump elected, and they see the vaxx as it is presented by these stations.“It’s just a little prick in your arm, and you are protected.”
And then there are other sites… no, I am not talking about sites that claim the vaxx to be the Anti-Christ, as you mentioned earlier…
I am talking about sites that give other virologists and mRNA experts a chance to present their views (they are not allowed to do so on the MSM), as well as factual examples of the horrible things that have happened to people right after the vaccinations, such as 1,200 cases of heart inflammation, strokes, heart attacks, liver failure, one guy with 3 brain surgeries, blood clots all over the world, and many deaths.
People who do not visit those hated sites, have no clue of these things.
Sure, 150 mill people being vaccinated and still alive… that says a lot
The people who visit those hated other sites, they don’t necessarily go there to listen to “conspiracy theorists”… they go there because they want to learn as much as they can about the Pandemic, so that they can make their decisions well-informed, A little bit of an education the MSM refuses to give them. They should be given some credit for trying to be more educated. They should not be ridiculed…. the only place for those folks to find other information and other expert opinions is at those “other” websites.
PS:
Since I mentioned the top scientists who have given their opinions on those hated platforms… and since I have done so before… I am almost expecting another comment similar to the one posted earlier…
You wrote: <<< [Gunterk posting]"Who would know more about the PCR test, than its inventor? Who would know more about the mRNA jab than its inventor? So, I listened to them. Is it wrong to gain knowledge from the top scientists in their field?" [metmike] Gunter, I already busted you in making up explanations that made no sense that you claimed came from an expert and asked you more than once to provide us with that source and what they said. Now you are doing it again!”>>>
This statement refers to a possible explanation of the Delta attacking more vaccinated people than unvaccinated ones. Long before the Delta arrived, a mRNA expert predicted these events of today. My fault was, that I couldn’t provide a link. I quoted this scientist’s words from memory
This theory was never busted, nor was a better explanation given by anyone.
And mentioning that top scientist in virology and mRNA technology have given their views, opinions and warnings on those despised websites (as I have done right now), is a simple fact that can never be disputed.
"And mentioning that top scientist in virology and mRNA technology have given their views, opinions and warnings on those despised websites (as I have done right now), is a simple fact that can never be disputed."
But you still won't give us your source for that.
Hey Gunter, the greatest astrophysicist that ever lived says that we are all going to die from getting hit by a giant asteroid.
I'm not telling you who it is or providing you any sources but metmike says that he said it.........HA! so now you can't refute it.
"And then there are other sites… no, I am not talking about sites that claim the vaxx to be the Anti-Christ, as you mentioned earlier…"
"People who do not visit those hated sites, have no clue of these things."
Gunter, you are dead wrong because I have been to MANY of those sites. Why is it that you will NOT give us the links after I've asked repeatedly? Don't pretend again that its because I or others will not recognize them as being credible or that it was wiped off the internet by the gatekeepers and is no longer there.
Where is all this evidence(other than complete outlying anomalies that you find in your searches to cherry pick as defining the science).
After weeks of this.............still no concrete, substantive evidence to back up your points.............and every one of them has been completely rebuked and busted by me.
If that's not the case...........then please give us these top scientists in virology and mRNA technolgy views and warnings. The link and names and statements please.
Your problem is that your are having a debate with somebody that has had an open mind on this for 1.6 years and let all the authentic science in and your's has been slammed shut and only looks for things to confirm what his brain thought it knew the entire time..........when it fell for THE CON JOB.
This describes your behavior exactly Gunter!
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/73179/#73273
And it matters........extremely matters because people ARE dying because of it.
Gunter,
The most amazing thing about this(to some people) is that you are actually a REALLY smart guy(and used to be objective).
If they can do it to you, then it's not surprising that they did it to tens of millions of others!
I watched it happen the last 2+ decades in the field of climate science with the fake climate crisis.......that included some educated climate scientists...........so brainwashing and cognitive bias isn't limited to the ignorant.
However, it is tied in with "letting what you want to believe" control you..........vs applying the scientific method.....being skeptical of what you want to believe until you can't prove yourself wrong....then you can be confident that you must be right.
Most people decide early on what to believe..........then spend the rest of their time defending what they think that they know, with closed minds, recirculating old information/justifications........ while they could open their minds and learn new things.
Here's some tips on critical thinking and links to some scientific method posts.