Thhoughts about Covid19 and the Vaccines Part 1
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Started by GunterK - May 18, 2021, 10:20 a.m.

We all know what is going on in India right now. This pandemic has grown into a disaster, similar to only a few others in the history of mankind. My heart goes out to the people of India.

With this in mind, I have hesitated to publish this post, but I am going ahead with it anyway (not that anyone cares about my thoughts).


This post is focusing only on Covid19 in the USA, and some of the issues that are questionable.

I am not trained in medicine. I am not an expert, but I needed to understand what’s going on, to be able to deal with this situation properly, and avoid being brain-washed by our MSM.

Let’s go back to the beginning of the Covid scare. People were losing their lives. Their deaths were often horrible, with tubes stuck down their lungs. We were shocked.

But then came a group of doctors who claimed that they had cured Covid and saved many lives, simply using already existing medications. To me, this was vitally important information. Yet, all of their comments were erased from the popular internet sites, as if these doctors had never existed. These are the facts.

My only logical conclusion can be that “somebody” did not want this information to get out to us, the People. Somebody wanted us to be uninformed. Somebody apparently wanted us to live in fear. We are being deceived.

But the deception didn’t stop there. We saw a document from a Health Department that instructed hospital doctors to call every death a “covid death”.

A man crashed his head in a motorcycle accident…. Covid death. A man was shot to death…Covid death. And just recently, the CDC admitted that all flu cases this winter were reported as covid cases.

So, when you tell me that, as of today, 599,862 people have died in the US of Covid19, I have to tell you “this is not a fact.. this is not authentic science… this is B.S.”

We have NO IDEA what the Covid numbers really are. We are being deceived !

Many people have speculated about the who and why of this deception.

Some say, Trump’s opponents needed to destroy his chances of winning the election.So they closed businesses, drove millions of people into unemployment and poverty, and had us locked up in our homes. And they succeeded.

Some say, a tyrannical government wanted to take total control of our lives. And so they did.

( Just yesterday, government officials in the UK admitted that they had used “totalitarian methods to instill fear in the population, to control their behavior”.At least, they are admitting what they did )

As a result, I simply don’t trust “those” (whoever they are) who have created this web of deception.

Another interesting tidbit of information was just revealed: Dr Fauci’s stated that only half of his team at the NIAID have been vaccinated against Covid19.

This is the team that for years has tried to create a killer corona virus, by using “gainof function” (DNA splicing) methods. And when they were ordered to stop this kind of research, they gave their colleagues in Wuhan a $3.7 mill contract to continue their work.

It seems to me, they, of all people, should know more about Covid19 than anyone else in the US… yet, after more than 5 months of vaccine availability, they have not bothered to take the “life preserving” vaccine, and casually continue their lives without being vaccinated ??? This should make everyone at least think and wonder.

Is this virus (as it exists in the US today) really as dangerous as we were led to believe?

Finally, after more than a year of lockdowns, unemployment, poverty, business closures, distancing, etc etc, … the People started getting anxious to get back to their normal lives.

“They” (whoever they are) told us not to worry, a vaccine would be available soon, and everybody would be required to take it (another threat?). And only people with vaccine passports would be allowed to be free.

The People did not consider this a threat, or a “totalitarian” move…. they only cared about getting their lives back.

They didn’t notice that the vaccine was being offered to them, or even pushed onto them, by the same people who deceived them in the first place.

And now, the vaccines are here. Can we trust these vaccines?

Continued in Part 2 , The Vaccine Era

By metmike - May 18, 2021, 2:12 p.m.
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Thanks very much for your hard work on this Gunter. I'll comment on this when I get the chance later.

In order to make this much easier for everybody, I'm going to put your 2nd post on the same topic below your first one. 

This will also assist people in understanding the big picture and encourage more conversation, since we don't have a alot the converse.

If your posts are splintered, this is what can/will happen. People commenting on Part 1,  for instance, will put it at the top of our threads, which will be the first thread that others read. Additional comments are most likely to come from Part 1, as part 2 works farther and farther down the reading list, every time a new thread gets posted. Within a couple of days, Part 2 might be item 9 or 10 or 11 on the list and falling, while everybody comments on Part 1, keeping it up near item 1.

Putting them together, not only makes that thread much more COMPREHESIVE on the topic, to allow people to see more at once, it will cause people to see it more often..near the top of the list of threads.

I hope that makes sense. We are only trying to maximize the value of your threads/posts.

I'm keeping your part 2 up there for you but I will just make comments here because I already spend hours a day on MarketForum for free and don't have extra time to make 2 separate posts for 2 related threads.

By metmike - May 18, 2021, 2:14 p.m.
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                some thoughts about the Covid19 and the Vaccines,  Part 2            

                           Started by GunterK - May 18, 2021, 10:18 a.m.            


In part 1, we discussed how “they” (whoever they are) manipulated Covid19 data. Hospital doctors were ordered to count every death as a Covid death. Gun-shot deaths, motor cycle crashes… all counted as Covid deaths. Every flu case this winter was reported as Covid.

The Covid19 statistics we are being presented daily, are fake!

Now, since we have entered the era of the Covid19 Vaccines, “they” have switched their methods 180 degrees. Now, most deaths caused by the vaccine, are being swept under the rug and blamed on other causes.

A very healthy 39-year old woman received her jab. In the afternoon she got sick. The next day, her liver had shut down totally. She died. We are being told that the vaccine had nothing to do with her death.

A very healthy 15-your old boy got the jab, and the next day he had a heart attack….We are being told, his death was not related to the jab.

In Europe, a retirement home had 46 residents. The retirement home ordered all their residents to take the vaccine, and within a few days HALF their residents died. The government said… not connected to the vaccine.

I know, I know… millions of people have been vaccinated and they are still alive. These (and the many other cases I read about) are small in number, when compared to the number of vaccinated people. I only wanted to point out that in all of these cases a connection to the vaccine was denied….totally opposite to how Covid fatalities were treated.

Again, “they” are not giving us the truth.

I needed to find out more…


I have a good family doctor. I trust him a lot. However, he is not an immunologist. I wanted to learn from immunologists.

However, when I turn on the TV, who do I see so often, telling me what to do?

Bill Gates! Well, with all due respect, he is a college drop-out who made his billions selling software. I might as well talk to my barber. Of course, Gates has invested billions in various vaccine companies… he expects to make big profits, when the whole planet is vaccinated. Next, please.

The next person that shows up so often is Dr Fauci. With all due respect, he has changed his opinions so often, I don’t want to see him anymore.

So I surfed the net and tried to get an education from various immunologists…


Here are a few things I learned…

The Ciovid19 vaccine is not a “vaccine’ in the traditional sense. You cannot catch Covid19 from it That’s nice.Some scientists call these mRNA vaccines “DNA therapie”


I saw several immunologists worrying about long term side effects of the mRNA vaccines. Various possible dangerous medical problems could arise in the more distant future.

One expert believed the vaccine could cause Alzheimers.Another virologist worried that the mRNA vaccine would go wild and create an autoimmune response, where the vaccine randomly attacks various places or organs in your body, thinking they are the enemy.

Our leaders have denied such worries, but they themselves have no scientific proof for their own claims of long-term safety, because these “vaccines” have never been tested for the long term. Well they actually are being tested for long-term effects right now… on us, the People. We are the guinea pigs.


Many immunologists have warned that these mRNA vaccines can change the human DNA . Others have rejected this thought, and “debunked” this claim.

However, just recently, I learned that Tal Zaks, chief medical officer of Moderna,confirmed that mRNA injections for Covid19 can indeed change your genetic code. (I must assume he knows what he is talking about)

That’s a red light for me, right there. I don’t want anybody to mess with my DNA


Another world-renowned vaccine specialist, Dr.Geert Vanden Bossche, explained the dangers of the current mRNA vaccines as follows:

He stated that the human body has a built-in, natural immune system that is designed to respond to any incoming virus. When you give a person the mRNA vaccine, it overpowers the natural immune system. Unlike the body’s immune system, the mRNA jabs are virus-specific. In other words, the vaccine responds only to the virus it was created to fight (the current Covid19 virus). When another virus shows up, this vaccine will not respond to the incoming virus, while the natural immune system has been weakened, or totally overpowered. In other words, your body will be defenseless.

He is also worried that the Corona19 virus could mutate into much more dangerous versions so quickly that vaccine companies could not keep up with the changes, and all of humanity could be destroyed. (remember, An mRNA vaccines is virus-specific. When a mutated Covid shows up, it may not know what to do with it)

He even stated that if the Covid19 is not totally killed in your body, your body could turn into a personal gain-of-function lab, and create its own new super virus.

For this reason, Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche is against mass vaccinations, He advised us to NOT take the jab.


One of the main rules of pharmacy is to never give pregnant women a medication that has not been tested on pregnant women. Yet, in the US, pregnant women were not only given the mRNA vaccine, but they were even encouraged to take the shot, without the vaccine having been tested on pregnant women. More than 30% of them had miscarriages. IMHO, this is malpractice. (but you can’t sue vaccine manufacturers)


Another interesting tidbit of information:

It has been observed that females had strange changes in their menstrual cycles after being vaccinated. For a man this may not be a big deal. However, what is shocking is the fact that unvaccinated females, who came in touch with the vaccinated ones, developed the same symptoms!!!

In other words, the vaccine can spread to unvaccinated persons, just like the virus does. This means that unvaccinated person should keep social distance and wear a mask when near vaccinated people, if they prefer to remain unvaccinated..


In conclusion, all this would be so much easier, if “they” told us the truth, so that we can make our own personal decisions. But this is not so.

First “they” used totalitarian measures to drive people into unemployment and poverty. “They” locked them up for over a year, until they begged to get a vaccine and regain their normal lives.

Those who hesitated getting the vaccine, were threatened with the coming of vaccine passports… without them, a normal life would not be allowed.

If I imagined, what a tyrannical totalitarian government looked like, this would be it.

“They” were very successful with their operation. They got the masses to a point where the people could hardly wait to get the jab. Everybody wanted to be first in line.

In the meantime, while Dr Fauci, the CDC, the politicians, have pressured us for more than 1/2 year to get vaccinated, the scientists who know the virus and the vaccines better than anybody else… the scientists at the NIAID, the scientists at the CDC… a large portion of them have refused to take that shot.

Do they know something that we don’t know?

It looks to me like we are being deceived again.


So, now we are being told to accept a foreign substance into our bodies, a substance that latches onto the cells of our bodies and potentially changes our DNA…a substance that may not protect us anymore a few months from now... a substance that could cause unknown harm at a later time.

This is certainly something to think about carefully.

I am not trained in medicine, and I am certainly not a virologist. Don’t accept my opinions without doing your own research.

By metmike - May 18, 2021, 2:18 p.m.
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                By GunterK - May 18, 2021, 10:19 a.m.            


`I already know the responses I will get to this post.

I will be told that my worries are ridiculous.In the US, more than 100 mill people are already fully vaccinated, and they are all doing fine.

However, there are also some 250 mill people here, who have not been vaccinated. And they are doing fine also.

I have always followed my doctor’s advice and taken the vaccines he wanted me to take.

However, this is not a “vaccine”. This is a lab-created little critter that may change my DNA and can do all kinds of harm in the far future.

If I am not vaccinated, and I go out onto the street, what are the odds of me catching Covid19 and being killed by it? 0.14%

What are the odds of being killed by other diseases?

Deaths per year:

Heart disease 650,000

Cancer 600,000

For this, do I want my DNA to be messed with, and not even be assured that I would never catch Covid19 or any mutation of it?

Again, I am not a doctor. Do your own research.

By metmike - May 18, 2021, 2:52 p.m.
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"I will be told that my worries are ridiculous.In the US, more than 100 mill people are already fully vaccinated, and they are all doing fine.

However, there are also some 250 mill people here, who have not been vaccinated. And they are doing fine also"

Thanks for you hard work.  I will make several comments but start with this one.

I will only use authentic facts and science to respond to you Gunter.

1. Let me first correct your numbers. Actually, over 125 million people have been fully vaccinated. 

2. Part of the reason that the other 214 million are doing fine is because some of them already had COVID and survived......33 million......or almost 10% of the they have some immunity.

3. Another reason is that some of them already had 1 shot. 47% of the US population have had at least 1 shot.

4. If you add ALL of those groups together, you get around 57% of the population has either had 1 shot of had COVID, well over half of the people.

5. On the other 43%/minority of the population that did not get vaccinated doing just fine on May 18, 2021. You  left out 2 important factors.  1. 583,000 of them.......ARE DEAD. Dead men don't talk as they say (-:

2. The other one is the remaining 25,000/day of new cases from people NOT vaccinated yet. Ask those living people if they are doing fine. Of course there are some vaccinated still getting COVID but 

3. The numbers are VERY EXPECTED, the vaccine is only something like 95% effective and those cases are rarely deadly because the vaccine greatly strengthens the immune systems ability to fight COVID when you get it.

4. You are something like 10,000 times more likely to die from COVID than from the COVID vaccination. Think about it. 500,000 people have died from COVID, have we had even 50 die from being vaccinated?  Not speculation or theorized  but PROVEN with REAL DATA deaths. 

By metmike - May 18, 2021, 3:08 p.m.
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You've speculated in the past that you don't believe that this many people really died from COVID, that they were going to die anyways in a short period and they just died WITH COVID and not FROM COVID. 

It's true. But what if a person with terminal cancer with 6 months to live got in a big car accident that killed them. Would we say that they died from the car accident or from the cancer?

The weaker the person is, the more likely for COVID  to kill them. Weaker people, with only 6 months to live will be easy pickins for COVID.

Should we only count deaths from healthy people?

What about heart disease, lung disease, diabetes, being overweight. Those ailments ALL greatly shorten a persons life expectency. The worse the condition............the shorter the time left that the person has to live.

If they get COVID, it can turn 5 years left into death NOW. 

This is the case with every single disease, including COVID. The worse off that you are from other conditions, the more likely you will die when you get it or have had it. 

You don't like counting a person with 6 months to live dying of COVID counting as much as a person with 60 years to live. That's just the way it is in the medical world.

Ideally, in a world that dialed that in, we could give scores of a 1 for somebody already terminal. A 2 if they had 2 years to live. A 10 if they had 60+ years to live. The huge problem that can never be overcome is that we can NEVER know how many months or years people have to live.

Maybe somebody terminal but thats it.

However, there are many others making a good case for the complete opposite of what you think. They believe that tons of people died from what people thought were the conditions they had but never got tested and actually had COVID, so that COVID is massively under reported.

New Study Estimates More Than 900,000 People Have Died Of COVID-19 In U.S.

I would say with high confidence that very few people who were reported to have died from COVID did not have COVID when they died.

Gunter says:

"A man crashed his head in a motorcycle accident…. Covid death. A man was shot to death…Covid death. And just recently, the CDC admitted that all flu cases this winter were reported as covid cases"

metmike: Please show me the data on this Gunter. Not far right sources that site isolated incidents that could account for .01% of the deaths..............the AUTHENTIC data. 

By metmike - May 18, 2021, 3:23 p.m.
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"What are the odds of being killed by other diseases?

Deaths per year:

Heart disease 650,000

Cancer 600,000"

This is a disease INDEPENDANT of those diseases that we treat by itself and your stat, actually shows that COVID is way up there with the big boy killers, not the other way around.

Cars kill 40,000 people a year. Tornadoes kill 100 people a what? We wear seat belts to increase our chances of living in a car accident. We go to the basement or a safe place in the house during a tornado warning to increase our chances of surviving in in a tornado.

With heart disease, we get medical treatments, exercise and diet to increase out chances of living

With cancer we get chemo or radiation or surgery to increase out chances of surviving.

With COVID, whether the numbers are 50,000, 500,000(closer) or 5 million, we get vaccinated to increase our chances of survival.

In each case, we are using the indisputable/proven science/medicine.

The chance of dying from COVID is 10,000 times higher than dying from the COVID vaccine.

You don't have to believe it Gunter but thats the authentic science.

You are not doing yourself any favors by going to the sites that have conspiracy theories and anti/junk science which contradict the things stated and shown with authentic facts

OF COURSE this is where you are getting this from Gunter. I know because I follow the data sources.   If not, then show me the sources with authentic  data that support anything you stated? You did not reach these conclusions with independent research from gathering legit data because that is what I do for a living. 

These extreme anomolies can sometimes exist but you must have some concrete proof/evidence and the only evidence, is coming from extreme sources using anti science, anti government, wild speculation.

No I am not disregarding the things you stated. I took every single one them damn serious out of respect for you. This is why I took the time to investigate and address  them.

I will always change or adjust anything or everything based on authentic data that shows that its wrong.....sincerely practicing the scientific method which looks for the reasons for why We/ME might be wrong.

Show me where I'm wrong and I'll adjust the position immediately. 

I have never censored this nor has this site every discouraged you from bringing up this topic................just the opposite. My favorite positions are those that disagree with mine.

By GunterK - May 19, 2021, 9:01 a.m.
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HI metmike, thank you for your lengthy reply to my lengthy post.

Sorry for not having the exact number of vaccinated people in my post… I should have done the research!!although it will not change the general concept of my writings much


I knew from the beginning that the staggering number of people who have already been vaccinated, would be the vulnerable point in my arguments… and I can’t battle these statistics.

However, I felt, I made a strong point about the unknown consequences of the vaccine, in the long-term (for which there has been no trial testing.WE are the guinea pigs right now.


You said, the Covid vaccine strengthens the immune system. Dr Bossche said just the opposite. The mRNA vaccine destroys your natural immune system, making it difficult for your immune system to fight off non-covid viruses (and there are a lot of them)


Thank you for pointing out that some 33 mill people in the US already were infected with Covid, and survived (without being vaccinated). This is actually somewhat of a comforting thought.

Some of these survivors didn’t even know they were infected… others had to deal with really bad symptoms.

Same could be said about the mRNA vaccines… most people didn’t feel a thing.. Others had a really bad reaction (such as joint pain, paralysis, convulsions, vomiting, coma, miscarriages, still birth, skin peeling off, losing teeth, blood clots, head swelling, losing ability to speak, heart inflammation, stroke, and more).


You always supply your arguments with “authentic, scientific” data.

However, in this world of Covid, you don’t find many authentic, scientific data. Most data are manipulated by “them”, be it the covid deaths on the upside, or the vaccine deaths on the down side.

OK, let’s throw out the motorcycle crashes and gunshot victims who were counted as Covid deaths… I don’t remember any more where I found these articles.

However, the CDC has admitted that they counted every flu case as a Covid case. This is cheating! If they cheat with this data lot, I might as well believe the motorcycle and gunshot cases also. Who knows what else they counted as a covid deaths!!!

And then there was that letter from a Health Department that urged hospital doctors to count all deaths as Covid deaths. This is data manipulation!

This is the world we are living in now. We cannot trust any information coming from these agencies. There are few authentic, scientific data!

So, the 582,000 number (or whatever it is today) is false. We don’t know, what the truth is.

Tucker Carlson spoke of 3800 vaccine deaths, and “they” fought him vigorously.

This was my whole point… “they” tried to inflate the covid numbers, and now, since the vaccines are out, they are trying to deny that some people were killed by the vaccines… as if the vaccines were as safe has having a lollypop


You wrote: “…You've speculated in the past that you don't believe that this many people really died from COVID, that they were going to die anyways in a short period and they just died WITH COVID and not FROM COVID. ..”

If this is how I wrote it, I did not do a good writing job.

Let’s take an example.. one member of my family had bone cancer, and, last time I saw him, they gave him 5 days to live. If he had suddenly been infected with covid, and then he died 5 days later… I don’t think you should call this a covid death. He just happened to die “with” covid, but not “from” Covid.

On the other hand…

Let’s take a 80-year old man, with a serious heart problem. He gets covid and dies of a heart attack. One could say, “without the Covid, this man could have lived another 3 or 5 years. However, his heart couldn’t deal with the symptoms (lack of oxygen, etc) of the Covid and he died. Therefore, Covid killed him”. I haveno problem with this analysis in this case. The Covid triggered the heart attack. Yes, I would call it a Covid death.

Now take his 80-year old twin-brother, who has the same serious heart problem. He is Covid-free and gets the vaccine and dies.Couldn’t I say, “ without that vaccine, he would have lived another 3 or 5 years. However, his heart couldn’t deal with the side effects of the jab, and, therefore, the vaccine killedhim?”

But that’s not what’shappening. While “they” easily counted the first man’s death as a Covid death, “they” would refuse to link the second man’s death to the vaccine.

That was one of my main points in my original post/“They” are not truthful…. We are being deceived. And when deception by higher levels in government are taking place, we, the People must pay attention. “They” have a motive, “they” have a plan. What is their plan?

The last few months most certainly looked like we lived in a totalitarian society, and their plans for further restrictions and “passports’ confirm this impression.


You wrote ”…. you are not doing yourself any favors by going to the sites that have conspiracy theories and anti/junk science which contradict the things stated and shown with authentic facts…”

I have pointed out multiple times… I am not a virologist… I am old engineer. “I know nussing”(as Sgt Schultz would have said) That’s why I had to look for real virologists to educate me.

So I found Dr. Tal Zaks, an officer at Moderna, and Dr. Vanden Bossche, as well as officers from Pfizer and the NIH (I didn’t mention them in my post). Who cares, on what site I found them. Each one of them knows more about this subject than I do (or maybe any one of us here on this forum). Some of them are by definition “insiders”. Why do you call the comments of these real experts “junk science”, while most of the masses get their stories from the MSM, from Bill Gates, from Dr Fauci, from the CDC….agencies who are already known to have deceived us?

The ironic thing is…. you take a comment from a chief scientist at Moderna, a man who most certainly knows the product his firm is selling,.. a man who knows more about this product than you, than Dr Fauci, than the CDC, and you put his comments into the group “conspiracy theory”, or “junk science”,only because of the site that published his comments.

And you know of state departments urging hospital doctors to count every death as a covid death, and it doesn’t occur to you that, at that very moment, you are witnessing a true “conspiracy” ???

One thing is for sure though…. you will not find the comments of the above experts/insiders on any of the MSM.Why, because their comments don’t fit into the propaganda we are being fed.

And this is the shameful part… the whole system is based on deceiving the People.The “system” doesn’t care about you and me. The “system” serves other masters. Today, there is no such thing as “by the people, for the people”

If you don’t want to be brainwashed by “them”, and if you want to find the truth, you HAVE to look someplace else. You won’t find it on the MSM.If you don’t look at other places, you will be misinformed.


I hope, I made myself clear…

If a Covid vaccine was a traditional vaccine, using a tiny Covid virus in the injection, intended to train your natural immune system how to deal with this virus, as has been done with vaccines for over a century, there would not be much to discuss, other than the results of trial experiments.

What spooks me about the new Covid vaccines is the fact that they are mRNA “therapy”, as some scientists call them. A lab-created substance, containing spike proteins , is injected into your body.. it attaches itself to (or penetrates) the cells in your body… it can easily change your DNA… there has been no testing about their long-term effects… some “authentic” scientists are very worried about what these critters can do to you in the very near, as well as in the far future… spike proteins can cause blood clots…blood clots can kill

Quite frankly, when the chief scientist of Moderna makes a warning comment about the Moderna vaccine, or when a VP of Pfizer makes a warning comment about the Pfizer vaccine, I don’t consider such comments to be “junk science”

By metmike - May 19, 2021, 2:53 p.m.
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Thanks much Gunter!

I appreciate your sincere views. I'm not going to cut and paste particular statements in your posts to comment on and create a never ending unproductive discussion or us going back and forth on this.

It's extremely true that we have been fed oodles of information, supposedly born of knowledgeable science from our experts that has been hogwash and some of it intentionally because of political agenda's. So I get your skepticism.  I am a huge skeptic myself.

                By metmike - May 10, 2021, 3:22 p.m.            


May 10: Who remembers this intentional hogwash they fed us back in late January?

                No longer need masks outdoors soon            

                                           Started by metmike - April 27, 2021, 1:41 a.m.    

Rand Paul obliterates Fauci's junk science"theatre"            

                            Started by metmike - March 18, 2021, 1:44 p.m.    

 Get N95 masks ASAP! Here's the truth.            

                            35 responses |            

                Started by metmike - Dec. 21, 2020, 7:27 p.m.    

         Covering up massive COVID being spread from protests-8/8 update below            

                            29 responses |       

                Started by metmike - July 30, 2020, 7:28 p.m.    

By metmike - May 19, 2021, 2:54 p.m.
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On vaccinations, I know this one is different but the fundamental science is sitting on a solid foundation:

                Vaccines, how do they work/why are people skeptical?            

                            Started by metmike - Dec. 20, 2020, 11:55 p.m.