Derek Chauvin trial
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Started by metmike - March 29, 2021, 10:39 p.m.

Derek Chauvin trial live: Disturbing video shown of George Floyd's death; 911 dispatcher had 'gut instinct' something was wrong

MINNEAPOLIS – Prosecutors called their first three witnesses and began laying out their case Monday in the trial of former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin, charged with killing George Floyd on a viral video that touched off worldwide protests and calls for police reform.

Any question about how and when the graphic bystander video of Floyd's death would be used in the trial was answered just minutes into Monday's opening statements. The prosecution played the whole video for the jury – all 9 minutes and 29 seconds of it, complete with audio of Floyd gasping "I can't breathe" 27 times and witnesses urging Chauvin to get off Floyd's neck.

Third witness, MMA fighter, says he saw Floyd 'slowly fade away'

The third witness to take the stand Monday was Donald Williams, a wrestler trained in mixed martial arts who witnessed Floyd’s death. Williams said he has been put in chokeholds dozens of times in MMA  fights.

Williams was on his way to Cup Foods, where Floyd was arrested, when he arrived on the scene and saw Floyd "was vocalizing the distress that he was in."

"You see Floyd fade away, slowly fade away. Like (a) fish in a bag you seen his eyes slowly pale out ... and roll to the back of his head," Williams testified. He said Floyd was gasping for air and "pleading" for his life.

Williams recounted to the court that he told the officers to stop the "blood choke," which is a form of chokehold that renders someone unconscious. Chauvin was doing a "shimmy" to make the choke tighter, he said.

Blackwell told jurors the case "is not about all police" or the difficult, "split-second decisions police must make." He said Chauvin had his knee on Floyd's neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds, contrary to the widely reported estimate of 8 minutes and 46 seconds. "There are 569 seconds, not a split second among them," Blackwell said.

Blackwell provided jurors with a visual timeline of that period, pointing to when bystanders attempted to intervene and when Floyd spoke his last words. "You will see that he does not let up and he does not get up, even when Mr. Floyd doesn't have a pulse," Blackwell said. "You can believe your eyes. It's homicide. It's murder."

By metmike - March 29, 2021, 10:54 p.m.
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Tim, Gunter and mcfarm,

Now we get to see all the evidence. Still sticking with your predictions?

 By TimNew - March 21, 2021, 7:30 a.m.            


"One of us is ignoring facts.  I know you have concluded which of us."But the fact is,  Floyd had a fatal combination of drugs in his system."

"Chavin will not likely be convicted.  The evidence simply does not support a conviction"

Met mike:

I say that he is found guilty  based entirely on the crystal clear evidence................99% confidence. I explained in a several posts why the "Floyd actually died from a drug overdose defense is bs"

Objective jurors, not being avid zerohedge cult followers that believe in things they want to hear, will use the LEGIT evidence and convict him.           

By GunterK - March 30, 2021, 12:51 a.m.
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I would say, that MMA person's testimony is probably more powerful than the video itself. It's kind of a check-mate testimony.

Of course, the Defense will point out that Floyd had a very similar arrest in 2019. When stopped by the police in 2019, he quickly swallowed some pills, which later were determined to be the same kind of pills they found in his bloodstream in 2020   In 2019 those pills made his blood pressure go sky-high, and he had to be taken to the hospital

In 2020, he swallowed the same kind of pills, when the police stopped him, and his blood test showed a possibly leathal dose of those same drugs. And he complained about not being able to breathe, while he was still in the car.

Nevertheless, there was no need to kneel on his neck for so long. I cannot see any reason for this.  Quite likely, if no one had knelt on his neck, he would have wound up iin hospital, but maybe still alive..

By mcfarm - March 30, 2021, 6:44 a.m.
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I believe my prediction was he could not legally be found guilty of murder but a biased jury could do any crazy thing, just ask  OJ. And yes that is what will happen I believe. Funny just last nite watched one of those date line murder stories and right there was the arresting office doing what he was taught, putting his knee on the protesting wildly suspect....probably not for 9 minutes no doubt but his suspect was also not dying from a drug overdose either. Only way that office was to get a fair trial was to move it to some island far away. On a related case it sure is odd how the one from Colorado   has dropped right from every headline as soon as the MSM was found guilty of lying about the shooter....have not heard a peep since the shooter turned out to be Syrian Muslim.,,,,,,how odd

By metmike - March 30, 2021, 2:56 p.m.
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"I believe my prediction was he could not legally be found guilty of murder but a biased jury could do any crazy thing"


People always see results/opinions that disagree with them(or the sources they believe because the sources tell them the news the way they like to hear/read it) as being biased.

Your opinion that he can only be found guilty if a biased jury does a crazy thing is a wonderful, quintessential example of somebody demonstrating this principle. 

As you may have noticed for years now, I'm not here to pacify either side when their views greatly diverge from the proven reality. The bigger the divergence, the more pushback they will them opportunities and trying to push them back into reality.

Again, using objective facts, observations/evidence and empirical data.

You know that I'm not an extreme left, Biden loving liberal. 

Maybe you would rather just go to extreme right sites the rest of your life and be happy living in what they call blissful ignorance. That's your right of course. 

However, I'm grateful that you are still coming here, despite knowing that I will vigorously challenge extreme right and extreme right propaganda. 

By mcfarm - March 30, 2021, 4:03 p.m.
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MM, I do not even agree they charged him with murder much less convict. I saw the entire thing, not just the last part of the incident. Feel terrible for all involved and yes the cop over stepped. But put your self in his shoes, just how times, in how many ways should a guy be told to comply? I do not know how cops are to operate if a guy with a large sheet of past offenses decides the rules are not for him especially if he is high on different drugs that make him a huge risk to overpower 1 , 2 or 3 cops. Sorry I will not sit in judgement and guesstimate this was a clear cut case of anything, especially murder.

By metmike - March 30, 2021, 5 p.m.
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How many times does he need to be told to comply?

As many as it takes mcfarm, then after he’s over.

When he's hand cuffed and not resisting........its over.

When he is hand covered and not resisting already, there is no need to kneel on his neck but even if he wanted to show him who the boss was or exert his power, it doesn’t take him crying out 27 times that he can’t breath, crying out for his mama for Pete’s sake, the crowd crying out that “your killing him” as they witnessed a murder that we all got to see.

Then after the guy died/stopped breathing with a knee on his neck, the cop still didn’t take his knee off for awhile. 

When he finally did and George had stopped breathing for awhile, he made no effort to revive him.

 I just described what actually happened based on the exact evidence/video.

What were you watching?

I always try to see 2 sides to every issue and try understand why people think what they think, so please tell me what you saw the cop do that makes this NOT murder?

By mcfarm - March 30, 2021, 5:42 p.m.
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I think I came to that conclusion after hearing medical experts explain the Floyd was a dead man walking with that amount of drugs in his system. Now Gunter comes with testimony about other past behavior, One thing I would like is the conversation between the officer and his superiors in his ear piece. Were they advising him of Floyd's past, his record, his potential? Were they advising him on how to proceed? Were they advising him on what kind of aid and when to preform it? As in many bad circumstances many times those in charge start with the CYA stuff and leave the plebes to fend for themselves. With the info I have and if I was on the jury there would be doubt in my mind.

By GunterK - March 30, 2021, 8:31 p.m.
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Metmike wrote about bias. I believe most people have a bias when it comes to this case. It must have been very difficult to get an unbiased Jury together, and I simply cannot believe that all the jurors are unbiased.

The defense will point out that Floyd swallowed a large amount of illegal drugs when stopped by the police (obviously to avoid being charged with “possession”), and they will point out that this amount of drugs would have killed a healthy person, let alone a person with heart problems. They will say he would be dead, with our without somebody kneeling on his neck.

The prosecutor will point out that we all saw Floyd being slowly killed and play the movie. There was no need to kneel on Floyd’s neck. He was already down and handcuffed. I believe, the MMA-guy’s testimony had a big impact on the jury,.

Metmike always says, rely on the science, rather than your emotions.. Well, there is a problem right there….

The coroner said, there was no sign of asphyxiation, but there was a lethal overdose in his blood.

The Floyd family hired a forensic analyst, and he stated that Floyd died of asphyxiation.

Who is right?

Is the coroner biased? Most likely. He and the police are on the same team.

Is the Floyd family analyst biased? Most likely also.

As metmike often says, bias makes you look for things that confirm your bias. This may be the case for those who favor the police officer. But it may also be the case for those want the police officer convicted.

Ironically, we are all facing right now a similar situation with the Covid vaccine.

Take a man with a heart condition, and give him the vaccine…. and then he dies the next day.

Those who are biased against the vaccine will immediately say “the vaccine killed him”

Those who favor the vaccine will point out that many people with heart conditions have survived the vaccine, therefore, this death is not caused by the vaccine.

This reminds me…

There was a retirement home in Europe, that had all their residents Covid-vaccinated. In a short period of time, 50% of their residents died. Even an “unbiased “ person might say “this is not normal”, but the government (which is obviously “biased”) said “none of these deaths are vaccine related. The vaccine is safe”

But I am digressing from the main subject… sorry

By metmike - March 30, 2021, 10:49 p.m.
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You all keep giving us reasons to not believe your eyes and ears.

Over 9 minutes long. 27 times stating he couldn't' breathe until he finally stopped breathing but you don't want to believe that a grown man, with much of his weight on the mans neck for 9 minutes caused him to stop breathing. Was George Floyd just faking when he gasped out "I can't breath" and as Tim thinks, he wouldn't have been able to make these plea's is he really couldn't breathe?

And he was even crying for his mama but the cop showed ZERO mercy and kept the knee on his neck until well after he stopped breathing..........oh, I guess then he stopped faking, right? because dead men, for sure can't breathe anymore. 

The crowd telling the cop he was killing him and pleading for him to stop, were just over reacting? How could they know that kneeling on a mans neck for 9+ minutes as he struggled to breathe would kill him.

Most healthy guys with good hearts that didn't take drugs would have easily survived a man's weight on their neck for 9 minutes, right?

In fact, that happens all the time right?

Because the cop was just following his training to subdue dangerous criminals. 

You show me 1 other incident anywhere in history of a cop kneeling on a handcuffed man's neck for over 9 minutes, even after he stops breathing and I will be extraordinarily impressed.

Not for a couple of minutes. I understand a combative criminal fighting the cops that needs to be subdued.............until they get the hand cuffs on him. 

 Had it been just a couple of minutes, already hand cuffed and subdued George Floyd would likely still be here. 

By TimNew - March 31, 2021, 3:11 a.m.
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Let's not leave out the part where Floyd said he couldn't breathe before he was restrained,  which would be one of the typical reactions to an overdose.

Do we know how much pressure was on his neck as the officer kneeled.  MM says it was nearly the full weight of the officer,     but I would think that would take far less than 9 minutes to kill someone.   The restriction of blood flow alone would take far less.  Was there just enough weight to restrain without injury?  That would be consistent with the official coroner findings.  Adding, the autopsy showed no bruises on Floyd's neck or back.

Now, this was a very dramatic scene,  no doubt, and I'm sure the impact on the spectators was powerful.   But their opinions of what was going on really isn't evidence.

George Floyd told police he was struggling to breathe before an officer put a knee on his neck (

By mcfarm - March 31, 2021, 7:13 a.m.
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in this country we have the presumption of innocence and the prosecution has to prove beyond doubt lots of assumptions you are making MM. From what I have seen and heard this country better be preparing for more fires, riots, robbing and raping. Now wouldn't that be a just reason to convict someone? And if he is convicted every officer above his pay grade should be convicted also, as they all had a hand in this. Someone trained him, someone supervised him, someone was talking in ear during this entire incident, they were right there with him in one form or another.

By GunterK - March 31, 2021, 1:10 p.m.
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Metmike wrote “You all keep giving us reasons to not believe your eyes and ears.”

When I first saw the movie, I considered this incident a cold-blooded murder. I also was appalled by the casual attitude of the police officer, while Floyd was losing his life. There was no doubt in my mind, this man was going to prison.

However, now we know that the defense claims that Floyd died of an overdose of illegal drugs. The battle in the courtroom is clearly defined.

One thing metmike has taught me on this forum…. don’t follow your emotions… do your research.

So I did…

Floyd was observed swallowing a handful of drugs when the police stopped him. Since the Coroner denied the cause of death being asphyxiation, and mentioned large and lethal doses of Fentanyl, I thought it was time to do a bit of research, regarding Fentanyl, because I didn't know much about it..

Here is what I read….. [see Ref A), Ref b) ]

Fentanyl is 50-100 times stronger (some say 800 times stronger) than morphine. It is more dangerous when mixed with other drugs.

The DEA reports that 2,000 persons died of Fentanyl overdose in the year 2015.

The signs of Fentanyl overdose are, among others: Trouble breathing or stopping breathing, weak pulse, coma, cardiac arrest, death.

I can see, how the Defense will build their case around this issue.

The second issue… and this one is probably important….

It has to do with the MMA witness. I am sure, his graphic description of Floyd’s death made a great impact on the jurors.

I have had some experience in martial arts, but not in MMA. I sensed that this witness was the real deal, regarding MMA. As a juror, I would believe him.

However,some things don’t fit….

He mentioned the term “blood choke”

I have never heard of this phrase, but I have seen several people being “chocked out”, and I started getting puzzled. When people are “choked out”, they usually pass out in a few seconds…. not in 9 minutes!!

You can choke a person by shutting off his air supply…that will take a while.Or you can shut off his blood supply to the brain. Floyd’s air supply was obviously not affected.. so it must be the blood supply, just as the MMA guy said.

So how could he survive 9 minutes?

In the referenced (ref C) site it explains the MMA term “blood choke”.It squeezes the arteries on the side of the neck

It says here…

“…. are blood chokes.This is the most common type of choke to see in BJJor MMA. Done right, blood chokes are a safe and incredibly effective way to finish a fight or neutralize an attacker.”.... .Safe????

This article confirms that a “blood choke” would render the victim unconscious in a few seconds. Since Floyd was talking for several minutes, maybe it was a very poorly done “blood choke”, or maybe it was not a “blood choke” at all.

They also mention that, once the victim is unconscious, one must quickly release pressure to avoid further damage.

In the Floyd case, the officer did not release pressure right away, after Floyd had passed out.

At this point, the experts would have to analyze.. was this a “blood choke’ or was it not. If it wasn’t, was the continued pressure on Floyd’s neck even relevant? Or had he already passed away at the end of the 9 minutes, because of a horrific overdose?

These questions made me take another look at the pictures of the officer kneeling on Floyd.

Millions saw the picture, and millions probably believe that the officer had his whole body weight on Floyd’s neck. (so did it)

Yet, now I clearly see that the officer’s body weight is on his right knee, not on Floyd. If his full body weight was on Floyd, his right knee would be dangling in the air.

You can try it yourself at home. Kneel on the floor and put your left knee on a higher object… and do this for a few minutes, with the same relaxed attitude the officer exhibited. You probably don’t put more than about 20 pounds force on the object, if that.

These are things I didn’t see at first… things that millions of people probably didn't notice (or don't want to see) I bet, most people believe that Floyd was chocked to death, by cutting off his air supply, because of the "I can't breathe" comment. And this is clearly not the case. His throat was never touched. So, why couldn't he breathe? A "blood choke" does not affect your breathing, it just makes you pass out in a few seconds.

Of course all this does not excuse the callous attitude of this officer. Floyd should have been taken care of medically, at one point of this incident. There will be many more witnesses coming in to testify, but in the end it's all about "choking vs Fentanyl".. This case is not about an officer killing an arrested person… it’s about the police force vs. the black community.

I have specific reasons why I believe, in the end, the officer will be convicted

Ref A)

Ref B)

Ref C)


By metmike - March 31, 2021, 1:28 p.m.
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"in this country we have the presumption of innocence and the prosecution has to prove beyond doubt lots of assumptions you are making MM."

Thanks mcfarm,

Yes, exactly! They have to prove that using the authentic evidence. I am just showing that evidence, that  we would almost never have right in front of us, like this.....but we do.... unaltered and without a spin..........just the pure facts of what we can see with 100% certainty.

I am just stating and summarizing those indisputable facts, that will NEVER change. They define  the evidence, the same evidence that the prosecutor is showing. The same evidence that the jurors are seeing/hearing.

It's you guys making the speculative assumptions of things that we can't see and know and have to use our imaginations and a very questionable theory about drugs being the real killer(which is not supported by the pharmaceuticals/toxicology that I presented on the previous thread).

Then, we apply reasonable doubt, and give the defendant the benefit of it.

In essence, in this case, do we NOT believe what we can see and hear but instead, believe in a wild theory that has no proof(and I can show is bogus).

You guys want to believe in the bogus theory. 

There is a 99%+ chance that none of these juror's are avid Zero Hedge readers that believe the bogus theory because prosecutors work hard to vet all the juror's to make sure that blatantly biased  people like that are not on the jury. 

By TimNew - March 31, 2021, 1:52 p.m.
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MM,  you said above that the officer was putting his full weight,  or most of it on the victims neck.  Is this one of the "facts" in your opinion?

A definite fact is that the autopsy showed no bruises.   How is that possible if the office had his full weight, or nearly,   for a little over 9 minutes?

By GunterK - March 31, 2021, 2:08 p.m.
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timnew, the officer did NOT have his full weight on Floyd. I discussed this issue in my last post in this thread.

By GunterK - March 31, 2021, 2:34 p.m.
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As I said before, for a long time, I have believed what everybody else has believed... that an unarmed man was murdered by the police.

We have seen gazillions of people marching the streets, carrying signs "I can't breathe". 

The MME witness has proven that this whole "I can't breathe" narrative is wrong. His testimony has made it quite clear, that the police officer never interfered with Floyd's breathing. A "blood choke" was aimed at cutting off the blood supply, It would have made Floyd pass out in a 2-3 seconds... and that did not happen.  It would not have interfered with Floyd's breathing

So, the symptoms of a '"blood choke" were not there, or Floyd would not have been able to speak for 9 minutes. And an "air choke" never happened.  So, why could Floyd not breathe?

These thoughts will not stop the millions of people from marching with "I can't breathe" signs. They probably don't even want to look at the facts..


By metmike - March 31, 2021, 9:45 p.m.
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"MM,  you said above that the officer was putting his full weight,  or most of it on the victims neck.  Is this one of the "facts" in your opinion?"

Sorry about being off on that fact, my bad. Let me adjust that for you to make it more specific and factual:

He used his knee to put enough weight on the victim's neck to severely restrict Floyd's  ability to breath, so that his brain, heart and body were being severely cut off from normal levels of oxygen. This persisted long enough so that his O2 dropped below the minimal threshold for basic functioning, probably for multiple organs.

And he died!

Is that better?

By metmike - March 31, 2021, 10:08 p.m.
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So Gunter, let me see if I have your understanding correct.

It's BECAUSE he had his knee on his neck for 9+ minutes that we know that did not kill him.

If he had died earlier then it would have been from the knee, so he didn't die fast enough for it to be caused by the cop.

This is absurd thinking but in case you didn't know..........he did die earlier, at around 6 minutes after the knee was restricting access for his body to get enough O2 to live.

What happened for 3+ minutes after he was unresponsive(stopped breathing)?

During that time, 2 other responders found NO PULSE but yet for an additional 3 minutes and 51 seconds after Floyd had become unresponsive/unconscious/stopped breathing.........the cop kept his knee on his neck and prevented others from trying to rescue him with CPR.

We will never know if he could have been revived after the cop cut off most of his O2 for 6 minutes and caused him to go unconscious because he prevented others from trying to revive him as well as  doing the opposite of trying to revive him...................making sure his O2 starved body and brain would not be able to get O2 for an additional 3 minutes and 51 seconds. Ensuring death.

I appreciate this conversation guys. I'm also going to adjust my 99% chance that the cop is convinced to 99.9% after reviewing the evidence in more detail, based on facts like that stated above.

By GunterK - March 31, 2021, 10:11 p.m.
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By metmike - March 31, 2021, 10:33 p.m.
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Thanks Gunter, so  after reading at Zero Hedge that Fentanly is what actually killed Floyd,  you decided to post some links above, about how deadly this drug is..............and this is supposed to be evidence that it killed Floyd because, according to Zero Hedge, he had a deadly amount in his blood after death/autopsy.

I'm not expecting you to be an expert on this but I already explained to you the deal with high level of drugs in somebody with a high tolerance and specifically addressed the bogus contention that this level in Floyd's blood, killed him not the cop.

Happy to repeat that again..............another time for you guys(though repeating it 100 times doesn't look like enough because you've clearly decided to believe something else and facts will not change your mind).:

By GunterK - March 31, 2021, 11:49 p.m.
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metmike, it is not who came up with the theory that drugs may have played a role in Floyd's death. it is the path the officer's defense team is pursuing... and their arguments are  based on the official coroner's report.

With all due respect, what news sites can we still read, other than NYT, MSNBC, etc, without being ridiculed or called "conspiracy theorists"?

By GunterK - April 1, 2021, 12:35 a.m.
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Metmike, to sum up my thoughts quickly.

For all these months I have considered the officer to be guilty of murder.

Nobody can deny that the officer kneeled on Floyd’s neck, and on the other side you have the coroner’s report. The real question is, what specific event caused death.

It is not zerohedge that made me question my previous view… it is the testimony of the MMA expert.

According to the professional reference I presented, In order to kill Floyd with a “ blood choke”, the artery on the side of the neck has to be restricted. In order to prove this, one has to prove that the officer’s knee did so. Being out of breath is NOT the symptom of a “blood choke”. Passing out in 2 seconds would be the symptom. This puts the MMA-man’s “blood choke” theory into question. Maybe some experts can analyze the photographs and determine if the knee was anywhere near this artery.

On the other hand, being out of breath IS the symptom of a fentanyl overdose. One could argue, as you did, that Floyd was accustomed to lethal levels. I can see that.

This simply means, there are questions about the commonly accepted “choked to death” belief, just as there are questions about the “overdose’ argument.

Quite obviously, serious examinations by experts are needed to turn either theory into fact. 

By metmike - April 1, 2021, 12:52 a.m.
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"metmike, it is not who came up with the theory that drugs may have played a role in Floyd's death. it is the path the officer's defense team is pursuing... and their arguments are  based on the official coroner's report.

With all due respect, what news sites can we still read, other than NYT, MSNBC, etc, without being ridiculed or called "conspiracy theorists"?"

So you are claiming that I'm being unfair in bringing up zerohedge?

Actually, Gunter YOU brought zerohedge into it as your main source when YOU started the first thread on this at MarketForum.  YOU were the one that sent us to zerohedge to get the information that shocked you and caused you to change your mind. 2 different times you told us about that article at zerohedge that changed your mind. Let me remind you:

                Latest on the George Floyd legal case            

                            14 responses |             

                Started by GunterK - March 19, 2021, 9:01 p.m.


The article liked below discusses some interesting legal issues in the George Floyd case.

When the infamous video was shown all over the world, most people were sickened by what they saw. I myself considered this a clear-cut case of murder.

The MSM did not discuss much later info, coming from the coroner's office  The coroner’s examination revealed that George Floyd did NOT die from asphyxiation. Rather, the examination revealed that George Floyd’s blood contained the often fatal drug Fentanyl, at a level four times the level that can lead to death.

Before his death, George Floyd had admitted that he had taken drugs, and his exclamation “I can’t breathe” is consistent with people suffering from an overdose of Fentanyl… and he even complained about not being able to breathe, before his arrest.

However, the link below contains a piece of info that shocked me…. he was Covid19-positive!!!

As most of us know, some strange things were happening in our Covid19 world, in 2020. Yes, lots of people died from Covid19, some of them suffering horrible deaths. But we also know that medical institutions registered just about any death as a Covid19 death… we heard of motor cycle crashes and gunshot victims being counted as Covid19 deaths. And we even saw official government documents encouraging doctors in hospitals to count every death as a Covid19 death. There is no doubt in my mind that the official Covid19 death numbers are greatly inflated.

So, here we have a person who died, and he actually had Covid19. I must assume he was THE ONLY covid19-infected person of the year 2020, who died without being counted as a Covid19 death.

It is quite possible, with all this information, that the case against the police officer will be dismissed…. and that means, our cities will go up in flames

By metmike - April 1, 2021, 12:57 a.m.
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"It is not zerohedge that made me question my previous view… it is the testimony of the MMA expert."

But Gunter, the post you made to start the first thread on this contradicts that statement.

It's cut and pasted in its entirely above but here is the link again.

How do you explain that and what you are saying now?

By TimNew - April 1, 2021, 3:28 a.m.
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He used his knee to put enough weight on the victim's neck to severely restrict Floyd's  ability to breath, so that his brain, heart and body were being severely cut off from normal levels of oxygen. This persisted long enough so that his O2 dropped below the minimal threshold for basic functioning, probably for multiple organs.

And he died!

Very nice.  But you are making assumptions that can't be supported by medical fact.  You have to stop your "I am using science to prove my point" because in this case,  it clearly does not apply.

By metmike - April 1, 2021, 7:13 a.m.
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Thanks Tim,

Let’s hear your version of what “might” have happened, including the last 3 minutes and 51 seconds, when we know that Floyd  had already stopped breathing/became unresponsive and had no pulse based on the tape/observations  and actual measurements by 2 people........while Chauvin  kept his knee with “some” of his body weight on Floyd’s neck the entire time.

By mcfarm - April 1, 2021, 7:13 a.m.
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A case can be made that this jury has a much more difficult decision than the OJ jury. In the OJ case there was conclusive DNA evidence among other things and they still ignored it. In this case the lawyers and prosecutors can pretty much paint whatever picture they want with their own interpretations. The jury will have to weigh many details that are just another guys opinion who was not there. They will call many of those witnesses "experts" in one field or another but bottom line they are just guessing. Tons of reasonable doubt.

By metmike - April 1, 2021, 7:46 a.m.
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Why do you keep bringing up the OJ trial?

The OJ trial has zero to do with this trial.....other than the fact that  you know that OJ was black and got away with murder because some jurors were tricked.

You are assuming that because there is a black man, they will use his race to trick the jury to sympathize with the side of the black man.

Let’s try this to help you to see this without race defining/distorting it for you mcfarm.

Pretend the cop was black and the victim was white.

Now pretend that they were both the same race.

In those situations, what would be different about the facts and how they are being presented in the case that has been described?

If they were both the same race, how would one explain why chauvin treated him this way.....continuing to kneel on his neck for 3 minutes and 51 seconds AFTER he stopped breathing and while he had no pulse?

Was the cop fearful for almost 4 minutes that an unconscious, handcuffed man with no pulse, lying face down on the ground would suddenly revive and cause a lethal threat to him?

Of course he did not think that mcfarm. That makes zero sense.

Why would somebody possibly act like this?

Remember that word hate that I’ve been teaching about?

It causes you to want to hurt the person that you hate and do irrational things because the outcome for the hated person must always be bad in your mind.

Hate is the most destructive emotion of all.

When a white cop, committed to saving ALL lives acts this irrationally, with it clearly resulting in the death of a person of a different race, a black man it defines exactly what hate does to a persons mind. This is the quintessential example of a hate crime.

If it’s not a hate crime mcfarm, please describe what you think a hate crime should look like.

By TimNew - April 1, 2021, 8 a.m.
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Let’s hear your version of what “might” have happened, including the last 3 minutes and 51 seconds, when we know that Floyd  had already stopped breathing/became unresponsive and had no pulse based on the tape/observations  and actual measurements by 2 people........while Chauvin  kept his knee with “some” of his body weight on Floyd’s neck the entire time.

I'm not making any assumptions.  I get mixed reports on the timeline , but I'm skeptical that someone measured vitals while Chavin  had his knee on FLoyd's neck.  Is that what you are saying above, or am I misreading?  Observations of people in the vicinity don't really count. I did read a report that some resucitation efforts were made in the ambulance,  but FLoyd's time of death was recorded as an hour after he was removed from the scene of the arrest.

I think an argument can be made that Chavin was reckless and he certainly didn't help the situation, one made very difficult by Floyd's actions. He may have even made things worse.   but whether his actions were the cause of death have yet to be confirmed with the available data. 

By metmike - April 1, 2021, 8:08 a.m.
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I’m glad that there are 3 of you here that persist with these ideas.

If it were 1 person, they might feel overhwelmed by the facts or see it as being unfair but the mentality of people when they have others in their group that think the same way is it convinces them that they must be right. It provides positive feedback and sources to encourage them to press on and defend their position. 

Just like people go to news sources that tell them the news the way they like to hear it to reinforce their belief system and versions of events....then go to sites to express those biased views with others that feel the same way.....echo chambers...that reinforce each other.

It’s why a mob mentality is so dangerous. The individuals in the mob create a positive  feedback to each other and it insulates them from realities that could otherwise counter their one sided/blind interpretation of facts.

This is a very fascinating study going on in this thread between the moderator and 3 other posters.

By metmike - April 1, 2021, 8:16 a.m.
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Thanks Tim!

So you believe Chauvin “May have made things worse”?

What do you think the penalty should be for maybe making things worse?

By GunterK - April 1, 2021, 9:07 a.m.
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Thanks, for pointing out the seeming discrepancy in my posts.

The coroner’s report is a factual event. It actually exists.. and I first read about it on zerohedge, not on CNN, or MSNBC, etc.

Just because zerohedge reported it, and not the MSM, does not mean this report does not exist.

When I read it, I immediately realized that this is what the court battle would be all about, and I found it worthwhile mentioning it on this forum.

At that point, I still believed that Floyd was “murdered”, but this news gave me a “hmmm” moment… and I thought that the jury, following the “reasonable doubt” rules, could be forced to dismiss the case, which would result in our cities going up in flames.

You may also notice that the main subject of my original post was a sarcastic mention of Floyd being covid-positive, and him being one of the rare cases, in our absurd covid-world, whose death was not registered as a covid-death.

However, the REAL moment of me changing my opinion was the recent testimony of the MMA witness.

The “Floyd was choked to death” claim is based on the assumption that the officer’s knee shut off the blood supply to the brain (even though the masses believe his air supply was shut off), and for this to have merit, one needs to know where the artery is.

As far as I know, this artery is on the side of the neck, a little bit forward, not where the knee was.

I admit, I am not medically trained. If a medical expert can tell me that there is another artery, right where the officer’s knee was, I would immediately retract my comments

All this being said, I still believe that the jury will find the officer guilty. As you have mentioned so often, most people have biases, which affect their thinking. This case is not so much about one man killing another man… it is about a black man being killed by a white police officer.

Good thing, the 12-person jury is racially split. However, without knowing any of the evidence that is yet to be presented, I predict the jury will be in favor of conviction.

By metmike - April 1, 2021, 11:32 a.m.
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Thanks much Gunter!

"This case is not so much about one man killing another man… it is about a black man being killed by a white police officer."

Do you believe this was a hate crime?

By GunterK - April 1, 2021, 1:45 p.m.
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Do I consider this a hate crime? I can’t answer this question, because I don’t know Chauvin’s state of mind.

However, since that infamous day, all the ensuing riots were about “black lives matter”.. in other words, Floyd was killed because he was black. Rev. Sharpton just yesterday gave a speech, where he said “it’s not just Chauvin who is on trial, it’s America”. In today’s woke world, all white people are “white supremacists”.

The reason why I brought race into this discussion is your recent comments about people and their biases. Racial bias was most certainly a factor in the jury selection. The prosecutor succeeded in making it a racially split jury. This lets him assume that at least half of the 12 people in the jury would have a bias, focusing on what they want to hear ( I am now sounding like you ), slightly shading their decision in his favor.

The black jurors know, what it’s like to live as a black person in today’s America. Sure, the days of slavery and Jim Crow are long behind us. But it’s statistically true that black drivers are pulled over more frequently than white drivers. It’s called DWB (driving while black). And we all know that black people are not always treated as equals.

I would assume that the black jurors in this case, from the very beginning, look at this incident as another case of white-on-black police brutality.

And what happens if one of those jurors comes to the conclusion that Chauvin is innocent? Would he or she be worried about being hunted down as a traitor in their own community?

Add one or two of the other jurors to the “guilty” group, and Chauvin goes down.

Looking at myself… if I was a juror, I would have come to the trial with the biased belief that Floyd was “murdered”, with the coroner’s report being an interesting side note that may or may not become the deciding factor. However, after exploring the “blood choke’ issue, I would have to change my mind.At this point, I don’t believe Chauvin’s knee was at a location on Floyd’s neck that could have caused death, and I would be eager to hear other expert witnesses. Should there be no other witnesses giving me a better explanation, I would certainly have enough “reasonable doubt”

However, I would find Chauvin guilty for preventing medical treatment during the later stages of this 9-minute ordeal (whatever the legal charge for this action would be) 

By mcfarm - April 1, 2021, 3:10 p.m.
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MM, the reason I referred to the OJ trial was to show just how wrong juries sometimes can be...for lots of reasons. Very evident inn the OJ case. We will see shortly in this case after we see what the prosecutors and defense lawyers bring to light.

By metmike - April 1, 2021, 5:51 p.m.
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"I would find Chauvin guilty for preventing medical treatment during the later stages of this 9-minute ordeal (whatever the legal charge for this action would be)"

Thanks Gunter.

So you would find him guilty of this charge:

Deliberate Indifference to a Serious Medical Condition or a Substantial Risk of Harm

"Section 242 prohibits a law enforcement officer from acting with deliberate indifference to a substantial risk of harm to persons in custody. Therefore, an officer cannot deliberately ignore a serious medical condition of or risk of serious harm (such as a risk that an inmate will be assaulted by other inmates or officers) to a person in custody.  To prove deliberate indifference, the government must prove that the victim faced a substantial risk of serious harm; that the officer had actual knowledge of the risk of harm; and that the officer failed to take reasonable measures to abate it."

metmike: You will note, just below the article above, this article:

Failure to Intervene

An officer who purposefully allows a fellow officer to violate a victim's Constitutional rights may be prosecuted for failure to intervene to stop the Constitutional violation. To prosecute such an officer, the government must show that the defendant officer was aware of the Constitutional violation, had an opportunity to intervene, and chose not to do so. This charge is often appropriate for supervisory officers who observe uses of excessive force without stopping them, or who actively encourage uses of excessive force but do not directly participate in them.

metmike: I know nothing about the other officers defense but will guess that is what their attorney's position SHOULD be to get the best possible outcome. I might be inclined to agree with this but would think that they would have to be super lucky and get off with the above. Will have to view more evidence about how egregious their failure was to have an opinion because the first cop will have been convicted of murder and that will make the prosecutors case pretty strong to aggressively go after the other cops.....since their behavior, played a role in the death.

If Chauvin was not convicted of murder, then the other cops could NEVER be charged as being complicit in murder. 

The Ex-Officers in the George Floyd Case Will Be Tried Together This August

By metmike - April 5, 2021, 5:42 p.m.
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The trial continued today:

"Police Inspector Katie Blackwell, who previously oversaw training for the department, outlined a series of training courses that Chauvin completed both as a field training officer and for regular in-service training. They included crisis intervention training, which goes over "de-escalation and mental health awareness." She also said officers receive medical training about the dangers of positional asphyxia, when the position of someone's body interferes with their ability to breathe, especially while prone. Those dangers have been taught for years and are well known throughout the department, Blackwell said. She said officers are instructed to place individuals on their side as soon as possible.


Blackwell said officers at the time were taught to use neck restraints as a defensive strategy, but were taught to use one arm or two arms. When prosecutor Steve Schleicher showed a picture of Chauvin restraining Floyd with his knee, Blackwell said it's not something officers are taught.

"I don't know what kind of improvised position that is, so that's not what we train," Blackwell said."

By metmike - April 5, 2021, 7:02 p.m.
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George Floyd most likely suffocated, ER doctor who pronounced him dead testified in court Monday

"The defense argues that Chauvin did what he was trained to do and that Floyd’s use of illegal drugs and his underlying health conditions caused his death."

"Langenfeld said that “any amount of time” a patient spends in cardiac arrest without immediate CPR decreases the chance of a good outcome. He said there is an approximately 10% to 15% decrease in survival for every minute that CPR is not administered."

“Mr. George Floyd’s tragic death was not due to a lack of training — the training was there,” Arradondo said then. “Chauvin knew what he was doing.”

By metmike - April 8, 2021, 8:15 p.m.
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Apr. 8 highlights for the murder trial of Derek Chauvin Day 9

Highlights from Day 9 of the trial of Derek Chauvin. A pulmonologist and forensic toxicologist took the stand in the trial for the death of George Floyd.

"Both doctors testified that Floyd died of a lack of oxygen after he was pinned to the ground with his hands cuffed behind him and Chauvin's knee on his neck. The forensic toxicologist said that the fentanyl found in Floyd’s system was lower than levels found in 94% of DUI cases."

"The final witness, Dr. William Smock, testified that George Floyd died a "gradual" death and emphasized there was no evidence he had a heart attack or any other health issues contributed to his death."

"Dr. William Smock, the police surgeon and director of the Clinical Forensic Medicine Program for the Louisville Metro Police Department, testified that George Floyd died of positional asphyxia, or lack of oxygen. 

"Mr. Floyd died from positional asphyxia, which is a fancy way of saying he died because he had no oxygen left in his body," Smock said. "When the body is deprived of oxygen, in this case from pressure on his chest and back, he gradually succumbed to lower and lower levels of oxygen until it was gone and he died."

Smock testified that he came to that conclusion after ruling out other causes of death, including fentanyl overdose."

Earlier, Dr. Martin Tobin, a world-renowned expert on breathing, said Floyd died from a low level of oxygen.

"Mr. Floyd died from a low level of oxygen, and this caused damage to his brain that we see, and it also caused a PEA (pulseless electrical activity) arrhythmia because his heart stopped," Tobin said

By metmike - April 8, 2021, 8:21 p.m.
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Breathing expert estimates half of Chauvin's weight was on Floyd's neck


A respiratory physiology expert testified during the murder trial of Derek Chauvin on Thursday that the former Minneapolis police officer at one point had half of his body weight on George Floyd’s neck during his arrest last summer. 

Floyd was killed during the arrest, a moment that led to nationwide demonstrations against police violence and for racial justice.

“What we’re seeing is that half of his body weight, plus half his gear weight, is coming down," Martin Tobin, a witness for the prosecution, testified Thursday as he looked at a photo captured from the arrest. 

In the photo, the tip of Chauvin’s foot could also be seen slightly off the ground as he kneeled on Floyd, who was pinned to the street.

"That’s 91.5 pounds … coming down directly on Mr. Floyd’s neck,” Tobin, a renowned pulmonologist, testified. “Everything is directed down on his knee.”

The prosecution is arguing that Chauvin directly caused Floyd's death by putting his knee to Floyd's neck for nearly nine minutes. Chauvin faces murder charges over Floyd's death.

Chauvin's defense lawyer argued in his opening statement that Floyd died from a mixture of causes, including preexisting conditions and drugs that were in his system.

“The reason we're seeing that is because the toe is off the ground, and there is no body weight sitting back, he's not hunkering back on his heels, so everything is directed down on his knee,” Tobin continued, adding that in that position, his “shin and his toe and his boot is playing no contribution.”

The image was one of a number Tobin, who said he thoroughly reviewed footage of the arrest ahead of his testimony, was presented by prosecution when he was on the stand.

Another image Tobin zeroed in on during his testimony was a still from police body camera footage that showed Floyd appearing to push his knuckles and fingers against the street and the tire of a nearby police vehicle as he was pinned to the ground during the arrest. 

“To most people, this doesn't look terribly significant. But to a physiologist, this is extraordinarily significant,” Tobin said.

“This tells you that he has used up his resources and he's now literally trying to breathe with his fingers and knuckles,” the doctor testified.

“When you begin to breathe,” Tobin said, “you begin to breathe with your rib cage and your diaphragm. Then the next thing you recruit after that is your sternum muscle which is the big muscle in your neck.” 

“When those are wasted up, then you're relying on these types of muscles like your fingers to try and stabilize your whole right side. Because he's totally dependent on getting air into the right side,” he continued. 

Floyd used “his fingers and his knuckles against the street to try and crank up the right side of his chest,” Tobin said, adding that he believes Floyd had also attempted to use his shoulder to breathe during the arrest.

“It's a very poor way of breathing. But it's what you have to do when everything else is failing,” he said.

He also said that had a healthy person been subjected to what Floyd had been during the arrest, they “would have died as a result.”

By metmike - April 8, 2021, 8:23 p.m.
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Just the authentic facts and science in this week's posts from the trial.

Others are still very welcome/encouraged to chime in.

By mcfarm - April 8, 2021, 10:23 p.m.
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I have been in the field and have not heard much of the trial. Have to rely on your reports. Thanks. As we know the prosecution goes first and things look a lot different as the trial progresses. At this point it does not look good. No matter the out come I just hope there are no riots, and if they are I hope the leaders are prepared to put them down quickly.

By GunterK - April 8, 2021, 10:25 p.m.
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I haven’t paid much attention to the trial the last 2 days, but took a look today.

If I was the prosecutor, I would wish that this doctor had not appeared as a witness. The MMA man took the trial into a significant direction, when he made a point that Floyd died because of the blood vessel in his neck being restricted. Today’s testimony is going back to the “I can’t breathe” issue… an issue that will have problems with Floyd’s earlier comments about breathing problems.

And then came this statement...

“The toe of his boot is no longer touching the ground, this means that all of his body weight is being directed down at Mr. Floyd’s neck,”

This is not “science’…  this is B.S.

Now we have medically trained people coming up with engineering diagrams. I could draw a similar diagram where the officer’s right knee holds 80% of his weight, and the knee on Floyd’s neck holds 20% His left toes being off the ground is not the deciding factor. The key issue for such a diagram would be the location of the “center of mass’ of the officer’s body.

I am also a bit puzzled by this comment about Floyd’s fingers touching the street.

Floyd is lying face down. His head is turned to the right. The officer is kneeling on this left shoulder. Floyd’s hands are tied behind his back. He couldn’t possibly lift the left side of his torso up. Therefore, he must have touched the street on his left side by twisting his torso slightly clockwise… which means the right side of his torso was slightly raised raise off the ground to do so, or at least is was unrestricted. Shouldn’t he be able to breathe a little bit with his right lung?

As a juror, I would see a lot of “reasonable doubt”. As a juror, I would pay more attention to the MMA man’s “blood choke” comments ..provided it was brought up in more detail later in the trial.

Just posting my views....other may disagree. In the end, it's up to the jury. They see stuff we don't see.

By metmike - April 9, 2021, 12:02 a.m.
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Thanks much Gunter!

"This is not “science’…  this is B.S."

To me, it sure looks like rock solid, physics, science, medicine and pharmacological principles, along with elite experts testifying and explaining them, in addition to us actually seeing what they are telling us about this cold blooded murder with our own eyes.

Without the video..............if we had just eye witnesses testifying,  we could speculate about the testimony being biased or not accurate because of the publicity.  

"As a juror, I would see a lot of “reasonable doubt”.

I am actually upping my confidence that the jurors will find him guilty from 99.9% to 99.99% based entirely on the facts presented/indisputable one sided evidence. 

Mcfarm and Tim, you guys still believe there is reasonable doubt or he shouldn't be found guilty if the jury was fair?

How about others?

By GunterK - April 9, 2021, 2:25 a.m.
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Hi metmike,

my comments above are not meant to make a judgement on this case. Obviously, I am not a doctor and cannot debate their opinions.

I only took issue with this one particular argument.... about the officer's weight being 100% on Floyd's neck. Yes, I understand that to most people this picture looked like "authentic science"... but it is not. We used to call something like this a "snow job".

A young student in engineering college would know that for a proper "load analysis" you need to know where the officer's "center of mass" is, in relation to his contact points on his legs. A view from behind would be needed to show more details about this. To put all his weight on his left knee, his upper body would have to be leaning to the left quite a bit (as well as slightly forward)., and this simply does not seem to be the case.

As I stated before, if I was in the jury, I would pay a lot more attention to the MMA man's comment about a "blood choke", than the descriptions of asphyxiation. They just don't sound right to m

But then, it's what the jury thinks, that counts in the end... not my ramblings.

If I was a betting man, I would predict a 8:4 guilty decision .

By TimNew - April 9, 2021, 4:21 a.m.
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I wonder how much Chavin weighs?   Must be very light since his "full body weight" left no bruising.   No tissue damage at all, per the autopsy.

By mcfarm - April 9, 2021, 6:50 a.m.
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I thought that toe thing was silly as well. I now if I was wrestling with a man as large as Flyod my toes would sometimes be off the ground. Do n ot see that evidence of 1 second very significant

By metmike - April 9, 2021, 5:24 p.m.
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Thanks very much!

That's what I figured based on the previous conversations. One of the most valuable/learning aspects of being moderator here it helping me to  understand why people think the way that they do.

By TimNew - April 9, 2021, 9:17 p.m.
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You're welcome.  

An example of my thinking.

I hear testimony about how Chavin had his full weight on Floyd's neck  for over nine minutes and then I read the autopsy report that clearly stated there was no tissue damage,  no bruising,  nothing..  And I wonder how that's possible.  And at that point,  I have serious questions about about the honesty of the testiomony. 

I hear a prosecution that is relying entirly on the emotions of witnesses while ignoring basic facts and   I question the honesty  of the prosecutors.

I know I said I would never comment on this case again,  but dammit...    The autopsy throws serious questions into the cause of death.  And IMO,  that goes way beyond reasonable doubt.

By metmike - April 9, 2021, 9:54 p.m.
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Thanks Tim!

No doubt that Floyd did have drugs in his system and he did have heart disease. I've already stated everything there is to state about the evidence for murder, numerous times in most cases,  so will not repeat them in this post.

Here is a story from today's testimony:

Derek Chauvin Trial 4/9/21: Medical examiner says heart disease, drugs contributed to but didn't cause George Floyd's death

Not sure if you've even done jury duty but when I did, they told us over a dozen times "you can't base it on what you think personally, you have to go by the evidence" Did the prosecutor show this person committed the crime beyond reasonable doubt? Did the expert witnesses testify to this? Regardless of what I think or you think, Tim the EXPERT witnesses have been, almost universally telling us the same thing this week.

By wglassfo - April 9, 2021, 11:15 p.m.
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I can't comment on this case as I have not followed enough

But for those who have or have not been on a jury I can comment having served as a jurist on a murder case

I will say that those in the minority, in my situation, have a very tough time to take a position contrary to the majority jurist

Especially in my situation where all 12 had to agree, or we had a hung jury and on and on with a different trial

At least you served once and then either agreed or a new trial, new jury or case dropped

Happy to see you getting some field work done mcfarm

On our farm it is wait, then one tractor once over the field, tillage, followed by another planting

We don't do any pre plant work  until it is the day to plant. Tillage tractor stays one day ahead of planter. We have a 3rd tractor to plant the sweet corn but the owner thinks it is too early., to schedule the harvesters when sweet corn would be ready The harvesters come from Georgia and on a schedule. Can't have corn ready to harvest and the harvester machine is still working in Georgia

Next week might be cold so not sure when we will start. A cold rain is some thing we try to avoid. Last yr we stopped when weather for casted cold rain. The folks who did not stop planting lost yield. Cost us a couple-3 days but seemed to be worth the wait. We are further north than your farm so we might do things a bit different

By TimNew - April 10, 2021, 7:26 a.m.
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From your link....

Baker also testified that methamphetamine increases the work of the heart, and that the drug is "not good" for someone with heart disease. He said he had certified overdose deaths from fentanyl in people who had lower levels of fentanyl in their system than Floyd.

Baker said he recalled telling the Hennepin County Attorney's Office on May 26, after conducting the autopsy, about a physical lack of anatomical findings to support that Floyd was asphyxiated. Later, he said he recalled telling the office that under other circumstances, he believed the level of fentanyl in Floyd would be fatal. But in court, Baker said that opinion would be if Floyd had been "locked in his residence with no evidence of trauma."

So, after testifying that there was no evidence of trauma, no bruising,  no tissue damage, he said he would have ruled the death an overdose had there been no evidence of trauma.

As far as the testimony of the other doctors who were hired by the prosecution that were not on the scene and did not examine the body.....

By metmike - April 10, 2021, 11:29 a.m.
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Thanks much Tim!

Yes, that item has always been true.

I'll continue to believe that the remainder of the overwhelming facts/evidence, all presented with clarity above by the prosecutor and experts  are more than enough for a 12-0 guilty verdict.

By mcfarm - April 10, 2021, 1:55 p.m.
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hanks much Tim!

Yes, that item has always been true""...........   MM............. by this do you mean the drugs in his system could of been fatal? If so it would mean right there you have reasonable matter just many other facts you think point to guilt

By metmike - April 10, 2021, 2:35 p.m.
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I don’t know how much more clear that I can be. I provided it numerically   99.99% to help make that even more clear.

 99.99% confidence means .01% that Chauvin was not guilty in my book. This is 1 out of 10,000 chance that he did not kill Floyd based on me objectively looking at the evidence and listening to the expert testimony.

You don’t find that odd that a person who bases everything in their lives on objective truths, science and authentic facts and is NOT a liberal (and agrees with you on many things)would think this when you think there is plenty of reasonable doubt?

I am wrong about things lots of times......forecasting weather means being wrong for a living(-:  but this disparity between our views on this topic is something to take note of.

By metmike - April 15, 2021, 1:57 p.m.
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By TimNew - April 16, 2021, 2:23 a.m.
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Defendents almost never testify in murder trials.  Tha's pretty standard.

What I find curious is that there has been almost no media coverage of the case presented by the defense.  You couldn't miss the coverage of the prosecution,   but you really have to look for the defense.

By metmike - April 16, 2021, 3:45 a.m.
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How effective was Derek Chauvin’s defense?

By TimNew - April 16, 2021, 11:52 a.m.
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You can certanly find coverage of the defense if you look.  Last week,  you couldn't avoid coeverage of the prosecution.   If you turned out the radio, the TV or looked at anyhting on social media,   it was front and center.

By mcfarm - April 19, 2021, 5:45 p.m.
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seems the defense asked for a mistrial today due outrageous interference by one crazy and absolute racists Maxine Waters. Be funny as hell if the judge granted this motion but of course he will not. Isn't it odd in a trial of this magnitude and coverage so wide {nearly all one sided of course} that the judge did not sequester the jury. Seems that is a given in most big cases right? And given the fact that the crazy nut Waters actually tried to jury tamper but hey she gets the usual free pass right there WX? Since you so torn by the hypocrisy I am sure your heart is heavy tonite after the dram queen hit town.

By GunterK - April 19, 2021, 8:53 p.m.
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I agree with you. I also wondered why the jury was not sequestered. There is no way the jury can be impartial, with all the news comments every day on radio and social media.

Furthermore, the comments of Waters are not just "jury tampering".. it sounded more like a threat. 

The people of the jury know.... if they come up with a not-guilty" verdict, all big cities in the US will burn, and the jurors themselves will have to go into hiding, fearing for their lives.

This was s stronger incitement to violence, than Trump has ever done.