Umm, we have a major problem here: "Trump Pressured GA Secretary of State to 'Find' Votes"
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Started by WxFollower - Jan. 3, 2021, 8:28 p.m.

 I don't feel the need to comment as I think this is self explanatory to those who are level headed and fair minded. I'll just leave this here along with a gif at the end:

Trump Pressured Georgia Secretary of State to 'Find' Votes (

By metmike - Jan. 3, 2021, 11:01 p.m.
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Thanks much Larry,

We have been exactly on the same page here about this but I have to disagree with the mischaracterization with quotes plucked out and taken out of context intentionally by the Washington Post and others.

The actual transcript is below.

President Trump is wrong about his insistence that he won the legal vote count. He is wrong about the allegations of fraud but everybody should be able to agree, that he is delusional but really believes, REALLY believes that fraud stole the election from him.

From the story: "At one point in the roughly hour long call, Mr. Trump told Mr. Raffensperger that he could face legal action and said he wanted him to find nearly 12,000 votes so he could reverse Mr. Biden’s victory."

He deserves everything he's getting right now but when the MSM twists things to misrepresent them/him, I'm just stepping in and helping to correct their misrepresentation.

edit: After reading and thinking about it more, it doesn't matter if he thinks that that election was stolen or not. He is way out of line with his statements and requests in this conversation by any standards.

By metmike - Jan. 4, 2021, 2:31 a.m.
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Trump: Georgia Secretary of State ‘Unable’ to Answer ‘Ballots Under Table’ Questions; Raffensperger Says It’s ‘Not True’

President Donald Trump said that Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger was unable to answer questions about boxes of ballots being wheeled out from under a table after Republican poll workers were told by Fulton County officials that vote-counting was done for the night on Nov. 3.

“I spoke to Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger yesterday about Fulton County and voter fraud in Georgia,” Trump wrote Sunday morning on Twitter.

The president said Raffensperger “was unwilling, or unable, to answer questions such as the ‘ballots under table’ scam, ballot destruction, out of state ‘voters,’ dead voters, and more. He has no clue!”

The Epoch Times reached out to Raffensperger’s office for comment after Trump’s tweet.

In response about an hour later, Raffensperger responded: “Respectfully, President Trump: What you’re saying is not true. The truth will come out.”

What Trump was referring to was video footage obtained by Trump’s team from the State Farm Center in Fulton County on the night of Nov. 3 and early morning hours of Nov. 4. The footage showed Fulton County election workers ostensibly telling poll observers and other workers that counting was done for the night.

Fulton County officials, including spokeswoman Regina Waller, at around 11 p.m. on Nov. 3 told news outlets like Yahoo News and ABC News that counting was done for the evening. However, other Fulton County officials later said that counting occurred until at least around 1:30 a.m. on Nov. 4, which Georgia GOP chairman David Shafer confirming that counting took place until that time. Later, Fulton County officials said that they did not specifically tell the poll observers to go home for the night, saying that the counting process was open to the public—and observers.

But in December, Republican poll observers Mitchell Harrison and Michelle Branton said in sworn affidavits that at approximately 10:30 p.m. on Nov. 3 inside an absentee ballot-counting room at State Farm Arena in Atlanta, a woman shouted to everyone to stop working and return the following morning at 8:30 a.m.

“This lady had appeared through the night and Mitchell and I believed her to be the supervisor,” Branton wrote.

Meanwhile, the footage from State Farm showed “suitcase”-like boxes of ballots being wheeled from under a table on the night of Nov. 3 after the poll challengers left. After those boxes were pulled out, it appeared to show vote-counting taking place.

According to Shafer in a statement in early December, Fulton County workers “continued counting ballots in secret until 1 a.m.” Trump’s lawyers asserted that the video shows clear evidence of election fraud.

Officials with Georgia’s Secretary of State’s office have said the video footage does not show anything unusual.

Georgia election official Gabriel Sterling said in a statement that the footage “shows normal ballot processing,” while Fulton County “cut corners” and showed “managerial sloppiness” in handling the election and subsequent recounts.

“We have launched an investigation into why the monitors from the political parties left before scanning ended. While it was their right to leave early, we want to make certain they were not misled into thinking scanning had stopped for the night when it had not,” Walter Jones, a spokesman for Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, told The Epoch Times in December.

metmike: This is total bs. This was clearly debunked and explained a long time ago. Don't let them fool you. The fraud is not what the allegations claim the fraud is, the fraud is them, the ones making these false allegations!!

I don't care if Trump is delusional and really thinks that he  won and believes all this crap or not..............this is wrong. There were 3 hand counts verifying the votes.

And the dumbest thing of all is that even if he won GA, it would make ZERO difference in the results of the election ZERO!!! 

And they must know this, they can't possibly think that they are going to somehow bs their way to get a couple more states. 

                Election Fraud in Ga            

                            29 responses |                

                Started by TimNew - Dec. 5, 2020, 5:14 a.m.    

By metmike - Jan. 4, 2021, 2:37 a.m.
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metmike: Note the words in bold print below:

Forget the conspiracy theories — here are the real election security lessons of 2020

The foreign cyberattacks that so many intelligence officials feared didn’t upend the 2020 elections — but this year’s contests nonetheless showed how much the nation still needs to do to fix its security weaknesses.

Paper trails protected the integrity of the votes in closely watched states, thanks to hundreds of millions of dollars in federal aid, but many counties still lack that protection. States mostly rejected the riskiest voting technology — internet balloting — but a few embraced it. And a pandemic-ravaged nation managed to vote safely and reliably, but election offices are still woefully short of money and staff.

Perhaps most of all, this year also exposed the United States’ vulnerability to election threats from within, as President Donald Trump and other leading Republicans promoted discredited conspiracy theories to try to nullify President-elect Joe Biden’s victory.


“The big picture lesson from 2020 is that ensuring an accurate result isn't enough,” said J. Alex Halderman, a University of Michigan computer science professor and leading election security expert. “Elections also have to be able to prove to a skeptical public that the result really was accurate.”

Restoring that trust starts — but doesn’t end — with improving the election technology, policy specialists say.

Joe Kiniry, the chief scientist at the election technology firm Free & Fair, said the U.S. “simply cannot continue” using election systems that “an enormous fraction of the electorate” considers “broken.” Without urgent reforms, he said, “2024 will be a disaster.”

Here are the biggest election security priorities that 2020 revealed:

Replacing paperless voting machines

Trump and his supporters have stirred up distrust about Biden’s wins in Georgia and Pennsylvania, but their failed efforts to scrap those results would have been more effective if the two battleground states hadn’t replaced their paperless voting machines in 2019.

Armed with paper records of every vote, officials in Georgia, Pennsylvania and other closely contested states have been able to doublecheck their results and rule out the possibility of widespread fraud. Paper ballots have been essential in discrediting right-wing conspiracy theories about corrupted voting machines and vote-switching supercomputers.


“That’s why it’s so important to have paper ballots,” Chris Krebs, the former director of the Department of Homeland Security’s Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, told senators during a hearing Dec. 16. “So even if there was foreign interference of a malicious algorithm nature, you can always go back to the receipts. You can check your math.”

He noted that “Georgia did that three times and the outcomes were consistent over and over and over again.”

But nine states still use paperless voting machines to varying degrees, according to an ongoing POLITICO survey of election offices. In Texas, which is gradually becoming a presidential battleground state, some counties have even purchased new paperless machines in recent years, despite getting $23.3 million from Congress for election security grades in 2018.

Without a paper record of every vote, it is impossible to reliably recount or audit a jurisdiction’s results, because there is no way to rule out the possibility that malfunctioning or compromised voting machines miscounted the electronic vote records.

That could be a serious problem in Texas if, as many Democrats hope, it becomes the next Georgia. And once states or counties have plunked down millions of dollars on new voting machines, they’re typically reluctant to replace them again in the short term.


metmike: Trump is totally embarrassing himself with his position that the election was stolen from him in GA. He lost acting like this during his 4 years as president. 

By TimNew - Jan. 4, 2021, 6:47 a.m.
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Right now in Ga, there is an effort to have a legitimate audit/verification of the signatures on absentee ballots. One conducted by hand writing analysts.  

I am certain the ballots were counted.  I am not certain all the ballots were legitimate.

By metmike - Jan. 4, 2021, 1:32 p.m.
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Thanks much Tim!

Nobody can be certain about details of the actual fraud that did and has always taken place.

However, we can be almost certain that it did not come anywhere close to  even being in the vicinity of being close to enough to change the election all this hoopla over the amount of fraud is being greatly amplified to be several orders of magnitude greater than the actual importance.

And all the hoopla is 100% divisive and counterproductive.

This is not giving people confidence in the results, its intentionally making feel like they should not be confident in the results.

The objective is to do the opposite of what they claim in most cases based on the actions and evidence.

By mcfarm - Jan. 4, 2021, 5:42 p.m.
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so Trump shows his cards and explains where 25,000 illegal votes have been found. Asks the SOS where his facts are when he just keep saying we investigated ourselves and found no believable....denies showing Trump any facts and then tapes the call and secretly releases it. Yes this guy you can trust. Also, where in the heck is the FBI in this case. You going to tell me they had no idea the SOS was taping the President of the United States??? Really. How odd Hillary, Obama and company were protected at every turn but now the President is stabbed at every turn

By metmike - Jan. 4, 2021, 6:08 p.m.
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You are right that an Obama or Clinton phone conversation would not have been taped for releasing to attack them.

"so Trump shows his cards and explains where 25,000 illegal votes have been found."

Those cards came from a crooked deck. He made up where those 25,000 and other illegal votes came from.

In 60 days, the evidence did not back him up, it showed the complete opposite in most cases.

Keep believing Trumps words and the far right sites if you want but please also, keep telling us here what those words I can bust them or confirm them.

You know me well enough to know that I wouldn't be stating things that are not factual.

By mcfarm - Jan. 4, 2021, 6:31 p.m.
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it is my understating the SOS showed no cards at all...just kept repeating....we audited ourselves....if this is true how is that different than Trump? And sneaking around taping someone and then releasing it to anti Trumpers is certainly no way to get me on his side......again where was our great FBI on this deal?

By WxFollower - Jan. 4, 2021, 7:22 p.m.
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 Trump's "cards" are based on fantasy/totally unproven. Trumps' cards are not evidence in the least imo. I think of them as just a bunch of jokers. If you just touched his cards, they would disintegrate into thin air because he has no real cards. Trump may think he does, but they're not real imo. It is made up stuff. 

And "suitcasegate", itself, has already been debunked. And besides, they weren't "suitcases" but rather the open containers that normally contain the ballots at least at this point of the process as they await the actual scanning.

By mcfarm - Jan. 4, 2021, 7:28 p.m.
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in his best Boston "southy" Ray Donovan would just simply reply....."suuuur"

By metmike - Jan. 4, 2021, 8:10 p.m.
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All somebody has to do is call the ballot holding containers "suitcases" and I know instantly that they have no idea what they are talking about...........or worse, they do know and are trying to trick other people into believing they were suitcases.

You can use that as a way to detect authenticity in the source on that incident.

Everyone that calls them suitcases is full of doo doo.........including President Trump.

By metmike - Jan. 4, 2021, 9:48 p.m.
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I think it was a dirty trick for the Secretary of State of Georgia to tape the presidents private call, then send it to the Trump hating Washington Post, so they could use it as headline news.

I know that Trump haters think of him as a hero for exposing Trump but who amongst us, would trust somebody, that, after we had a big disagreement with them in a heated private phone conversation and then they immediately turned the tape over to a news source that hates me so it can be used to make me look bad?

This really is pretty low when government officials can't have private conversations without one or the other side immediately going to the press with the conversation to get the other one. I guess in todays world, virtue is subjectively defined as whatever somebody has to do in order to obliterate their opponent. Leaks, bogus whistle blowers, taped private conversations............whatever.

If you are on the side of the one doing it..............they were a patriotic, brave hero.  On the other side, they were a rat fink betrayer.

Despite my opinion about the Secretary of State's clever and effective scheme to use the phone call to obliterate Trump, Trumps actions and words from the day after the election until today on this topic, which include the phone conversation(which is not much new except we got to hear how he says the same exact wrong things in private as he does in public) have all been  off the charts undemocratic, dishonest,  and delusional actions and words.  Trump has been way out of line the entire time.

The entire  objective of one side  is to sow distrust in the results of the election of Joe Biden. It's not to find the truth. You don't discover the truth by using deception and lies.I will say that Trump and a few others are delusional enough to actually believe some of their stuff.

They used up  60 days of their time (which was more than enough) with smoke and mirrors, false narratives, made up, then busted theories, slinging mud and sometimes intentional lies, then repeating things proved dead wrong as if they were facts.

We are not saying there was NO fraud. There has always been and will always be election fraud. We are saying not anyway close to anything that could ever, no matter how many investigations.........would give Trump enough votes to win. 

Now they still won't let up. Because they did such a nice job of convincing so many people that this election was stolen from Donald Trump...........they have the incentive to keep going. That is, as long as enough people keep falling for these sort of disingenuous schemes.............they keep paying dividends for the schemers.

If 90% of Americans said "C'mon you guys, be real we all know Joe Biden won, so stop this divisive nonsense so that we can get back to what's important.............or we will stop supporting you.

Instead, they do their fake political posturing for their party to make them look strong, because conceding to the reality of the Biden win would make them look weak.........even though it would be healing for the country and we have this totally counterproductive(other than them looking good to the republican base), 0 chance of changing anything dynamic that is generating another round of hatred and divisiveness.

I've had lots of time to digest the significance of the phone call after listening to it and think now, that it was just Trump saying all the same things that he has been saying in public for 2 months but the media is packaging it in a way to make it look like it was something different.

Stop putting so much significance on just 1 phone call and look at the big picture of the last 2 months and what the republicans are trying to do on this issue.......... with Trump leading.

It was so easy for republicans to see for 4 years when it was being done to Trump.............not so easy to see when  a similar thing is being done BY THE republicans.

Cognitive bias always tips you off.................when the OTHER side is doing something wrong. 

Trump Georgia call divides House GOP

By WxFollower - Jan. 4, 2021, 10:11 p.m.
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 The Sec of State's life had already been threatened thanks to Trump. He had no choice than to take drastic measures to protect himself as well as the country. He's a patriot who I wouldn't hesitate to vote for Pres if he would run. Trump has done numerous way worse things that he's gotten away with. This needed to be done. May the Sec of State be blessed with protection of his life.

 Let Trump sue him. That would be a riot!

By metmike - Jan. 4, 2021, 10:53 p.m.
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Here's a good way to help understand who the frauds really are.

We have 50 states in this country. All of them have their own voting rules and systems, many with similarities and certainly, different amounts of fraud using different schemes but probably at least some fraud.

How is it, that for 60 days, we hear nothing about any fraud in 44 states and in no states that Trump won. 

For 60 days, we have heard relentlessly about massive systemic just 6 states. All of those states just happen to be states that Trump lost by a fairly small margin. GA, PA, MI, WI, NV and AZ and the amount of fraud, just happened to be enough to flip the election to Donald Trump.

If these people are truly intent in rooting out fraud and corruption, so that Americans can have confidence in the electoral systems in 50 states............ why ignore all of it in 44 states and find just enough of it, in just 6 states to flip the election to Trump in those states?

Because they are obviously not concerned with the truth or anything other than trying to manufacture enough fraud in just those 6 close states to create the impression that it caused Biden to beat Trump.

And that's what it has been........manufactured, alleged fraud that falls apart when the evidence is evaluated closer. 

Other than the typical small scale fraud(that should be addressed) there has been 0 legit evidence  of anything close to something capable of making a difference in even 1 of those states.  And Trump would need several of them flipped to win.

This is nothing more than an exercise in trying to cause Americans to lose faith in the integrity of the electoral process and the results........... the results were a clear, legal Joe Biden win based on every authentic, objective standard.

They are claiming to need more investigations so that Americans can trust the electoral process. Ironic.

 Their objective all this time is to trick Americans into NOT trusting the election results.....sow skeptism, distrust, doubt, uncertainty. 

To be perfectly honest, I knew zilch about the process of counting votes before this year. After all the investigations and allegations proven false, I think that I may have MORE confidence in it than before. 

For people actually looking at the facts/legit evidence and ignoring the fake allegations, wild,speculative theories and made up stuff that have fallen apart, we should be pretty confident in the electoral the states that have paper trails, like GA to confirm the machine count.

The things that Trump has been claiming about the election have actually made me more confident in the electoral process because when somebody tells a bunch of lies that are proven as bogus, then when they start saying similar things in the same way in the same realm, that make no sense, our own critical thinking leads us to believe they are lying again.

By metmike - Jan. 4, 2021, 11:47 p.m.
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I think that the Secretary of State should have stayed above this and just ignored Trump and not taken actions to try to bring him down by taping the conversation and releasing it to his MSM enemies.

I know that you will never agree with me and I see your and his point and could have possibly done the same thing myself, so I totally understand the reasons.............and it worked perfectly.

But did it calm down the situation or did it inflame it even more?

We know that Trump is totally at fault for all of this but this actually created more divisiveness and it caused Trump supporters to be  outraged and vent at him even more for doing this.

Let's ask mcfarm what he thinks of the guy, AFTER he did this,  if we  want to poll a person who represents that side.

Trump will be gone in a few weeks. But the Secretary of State will still be there.

The enemies that he made by turning over a private conversation tape to get the president will always remember him for this.

As I said, I understand why he did it because Trump is so dang wrong on this and has been attacking the guy relentlessly and he wants the world to know what Trump said during their private conversation(which is similar to his public words).

However, if he is worried about having his life threatened, I think what he just did to really tick off Trump supporters just magnified that threat greatly. It did the opposite of cooling things off.

If there really is a threat to him, don't you agree that these people must be even more irate after this?

For sure I would be if I was a loose cannon and  convinced that Trump is right and  the guy he is in a dispute with(S of S) and I'm mad at just handed Trumps biggest enemy of the last 4 years.............the MSM some in house, inside information from a personal phone call to take him down.

And he knows people would feel this way, so the main reason he did it, was to use the MSM to embarrass and obliterate Trump on this issue.