SEEING AS HOW WE'RE ALL DIFFERENT, WITH DIFFERING FAITHS... I HAVE A QUESTION.
IS THERE REALLY A PLACE CALLED HEAVEN & A PLACE CALLED HELL?
JUST CURIOUS.
yes there is. And sometimes you have to go thru hell to get to heaven
Wonderful topic, Jean!
Ask 10 people from 10 different religions and you will get alot of different answers. All of them based on faith in something with no proof or scientific evidence.
And those answers may be completely different than somebody that's an atheist or agnostic.
I consider this a very personal choice and a belief that has so many different extremely sincere, devout answers that are no better or worse than others to just respect each person's religious beliefs.
I keep my personal opinions to myself unless its with another person who agrees with me(based on knowing what they believe in) in a private conversation. My religious views have morphed over time and I will never be certain at any point in my life that they won't be adjusted more.
I like to stick to discussions that feature agreements or learning or ones that feature disagreements that have objective facts and authentic evidence to prove my position.
Learning about religions and peoples views is something good here and the topic is always open for discussion.
Feel free to express your own faith with gusto.
My beliefs have nothing to do with my religion. I'm Jewish. So don't take the following as representative of the Jewish faith. It is my own personal belief.
When I die, it's over. I cease to exist. To the extent that my spirit lives on I would say only in the following way. The people that I've touched in my life might remember me. In their memory, my spirit lives. But I don't get to experience that. I'm gone.
That doesn't mean I'm an atheist. I am not. My closeness with God or my distance from God ebbs and flows. The moral codes that have evolved in all cultures have spiritual origins. Why do people feel compassion for a stranger in need? It has no bearing on their survival. In moments like that, I feel close to God. We are more than animals when we aspire to the divine. But when I ponder the fact that 1.5 million innocent Jewish children were murdered in the holocaust I cannot help but ask the question, 'Where is God'?
Is there a heaven? Yes. But it is not in the afterlife. It is right here in this precious brief existence we call LIFE. This is heaven! I believe the mythology of eternal life in heaven is an opiate for the masses. So treasure your life here and now. It is so incredibly unlikely that each of us exists. It is a gift. It is heaven.
On the lighter side: In the history of mankind there have evolved 3000 different mythologies about the existence of God. They are all silly. Except for yours. THAT'S the real one. :-)
I'LL BE BACK WITH PART 2 OF THE QUESTION
joj,
Your profound post TRANScends any other post of the week(especially mine last week) or any other time frame here....by a wide margin.
There hasn't been a better one in the past 5+ years that I've been moderator.
And it lines up perfectly with what my reason to be here is.
So joj, thanks so much for greatly touching me today and earning the first:
Post of All-time
Jean, you get an assist for bringing up this wonderful topic!
"Thy Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven"
https://wisdomspeacefulharmony.guru/heaven-on-earth
1 - Where Is Heaven?
VIDEO - Where Is Heaven On Earth?
VIDEO - How To Experience Love's Wisdom In Action - Heaven On Earth
3 - Choose Heaven's Well Being Over Hell's Insanity!
VIDEO - Heaven's Collective Well-Being Vs Hells' Insanity & Division
4 - Is Heaven Available To Us Now?
VIDEO - Are We Capable Of Global Well-Being? - 17 Areas of Opportunity
5 - Heaven On Earth = Personal & Collective Well Being In Action
VIDEO - NATURE'S LAWS Express HEAVEN On EARTH! Global Well-Being
joj ~ I SMILED ALL THE WAY THROUGH YOUR POST!! THANK YOU!
UNKNOWINGLY, YOU'VE GIVEN ME YOUR ANSWERS TO THE UPCOMING OTHER PARTS OF MY QUESTION.
MIKE ~ "Ask 10 people from 10 different religions and you will get alot of different answers. " EVEN FROM THE SAME RELIGION, THERE'S MULTIPLE MIXED ANSWERS. LOL
I NOTED THAT YOU DIDN'T GIVE A DEFINITIVE "YES" OR "NO" ANSWER & THAT'S OKAY. ~
"I keep my personal opinions to myself unless its with another person who agrees with me(based on knowing what they believe in) in a private conversation." AND, THAT'S OKAY, TOO.
"Learning about religions and peoples views is something good here and the topic is always open for discussion." DIFFERENT RELIGIOUS BELIEFS HAVE ALWAYS INTRIGUED ~ FASCINATED ME. I'VE NEVER UNDERSTOOD WHY MOST PEOPLE HAVE SUCH A DIFFICULT TIME IN STAYING CIVIL, WHILE DISCUSSING RELIGION. (MANY YEARS AGO, I FIGURED OUT THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF ARGUMENTATIVE PEOPLE ARE UNSURE OF THEMSELVES, IN ONE WAY, OR ANOTHER) I RESPECT OTHER PEOPLES' BELIEFS & WOULD NEVER TELL THEM THEY'RE WRONG, JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME BELIEFS AS I.. OR, FOR ANY OTHER REASON.. (THAT'S WHERE THE "GIFT OF CHOICE" COMES INTO PLAY.)
"Feel free to express your own faith with gusto." LOL I WILL. I THOROUGHLY ENJOY LISTENING TO OTHERS EXPRESS THEIR BELIEFS & FOR THEM TO LISTEN TO MINE.
I SHALL RETURN ✔ IT'LL BE FUN & ENLIGHTENING.
MCFARM ~ "yes there is. And sometimes you have to go thru hell to get to heaven" LOL GOOD ONE!!
OKAY ~ ON TO PART 2 OF MY QUESTION
MIKE ~ I'LL CHECK OUT YOUR LINKS, ALL IN DUE TIME.
PART 2
IF YOU FOUND THAT YOUR CHOSEN PLACE OF WORSHIP OR RELIGION, BELIEVED THE OPPOSITE OF YOUR ANSWER TO MY ORIGINAL QUESTION ~ WOULD YOU CONTINUE ON WITH THEM, OR... WOULD YOU LEAVE?
MAKE YOUR ANSWER ANY LENGTH YA WANT ~ 1 WORD OR 1,000 LOL _________________ (MY ANSWER TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION IS: YES)
Jean,
Another great question.
I always try to dial in adjustments to my thinking based on NEW, better information that's superior to OLD information and try to avoid group think, cult like thinking based on OLD information and belief systems based on things people want to believe.
So for me, the answer would be yes.
However, religions have a tremendous amount of customs, ceremonies and opportunities for the community to share things together which would be offsetting.
In addition, many to most of the charities in our world are rooted in religious beliefs which, even if flawed, embrace the philosophy that joj expressed.
Regardless of the core reasoning/principle to do acts of kindness(WWJD-What Would Jesus Do-I want to go to heaven-or I'm connected spiritually with humanity and compelled by compassion to make the world better for the less fortunate) , most religions offer some tremendously positive opportunities to benefit mankind and ourselves, despite flaws connected with elements which make no sense in today's world.
To try to achieve 1,000 words, let me tell a story.
My dad's generation and especially those before him believed the story of Adam and Eve in a literal interpretation. Many still do today. Based on your comments, Jean it appears you do too.
That the earth was created in 6 days, exactly as described in Genesis and then on the 7th day, God took a break.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%201&version=CEB
https://www.bibleinfo.com/en/questions/what-are-7-days-of-creation
++++++++++++++
With the mind of a scientist, I couldn't reconcile this story with the reality of geological evidence from an early age. But no big deal for a few decades because I could rationalize, pick and choose what I wanted to believe in and wanted to discard, while still being very active practicing my faith.
Then, as a responsible adult wanting to give everything of myself to make the world a better place, I was given an opportunity from being asked by our church to teach religion education(based on the ones running the program seeing me as knowledgeable and credible source).
Of course I said yes but now, what I thought personally and what I taught had to be in sync because I was teaching to young people (mostly high school age) and molding minds.
I had just ignored this dichotomy and pretended it didn't matter but now it did.
I contemplated and prayed and thought about it using the minds of people living thousands of years ago compared to the minds of people living in 1995.
It became crystal clear.
Today, we understand evolution and the conclusive science defining it because our minds and understanding have evolved and we can teach that to children based on rock solid geological facts. This view, however, strongly contradicts with the biblical description in Genesis based on religion/faith.
It became crystal clear at the time to explain that based entirely on the primitive understanding of science/geology of people in that age.
When God revealed himself as the TRUE God(they were worshipping all sorts of other gods) and no way would those primitive people understand anything but a creative version like the beautiful one conjured up in Genesis.
So this was God revealing himself to his people in the only way they could comprehend such a profound thing. They followed a calendar with days of the week.
Some like to say that each day of the week in the story of Genesis represents millions of years of evolution, for instance and for God, time has no meaning but it does for humans.
I won't get into debates on this because there will be numerous PERSONAL beliefs on this (which are good to express here).
My example is only meant to demonstrate where my mind needed to go in order to update the story of creation so that it was credible in the minds of high school kids in the 1990's.
This also lined up with what many in the Catholic church taught, so I wasn't teaching these kids something that contradicted a word of current Catholic Doctrine.
I mainly taught Church history and much of it is based on documented historical facts.
Some of it, especially how Martin Luther broke from the Catholic Church(Reformation) actually acknowledged how the Church messed up badly because human beings are extremely flawed, so I wasn't just trying to teach everything one sided.
The Church was decades late in adjusting with the Council of Trent.
https://www.loc.gov/rr/european/luther.html
https://www.britannica.com/summary/Council-of-Trent
There's your 1,000 words and you can understand why I loved teaching Religious Education for 15 years which is a huge objective here.
"If you want to learn about something...........TEACH IT!"
Thanks for the kind words Mike and 12345.
In keeping with the theme of God is personal to each individual,
there is a prayer in the daily rituals of Judaism that goes:
".... God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob...."
The prayer does NOT read "God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob..".
The prayer implies that God is a personal phenomenon to each individual. At least, that is my interpretation.
MY ANSWER TO PART 1 ~ YES, THERE ARE SUCH PLACES AS HEAVEN & HELL ..................... MY ANSWER TO PART 2 ~ YES. AND...I DID JUST THAT IN 2000
I WAS BAPTIZED IN THAT CHURCH, AS A LITTLE KID ~ I TOOK COMMINICANTS CLASS AT AGE 10 & WAS A MEMBER FROM THEN ON. THROUGHOUT THE YEARS, I NOTICED THE CHANGES IN ATTITUDES. IN 1996 ~ THEY WERE GETTING ABSURD! I BEGAN A DEEP DIVE INTO JUST WHAT WAS GOING ON.
AFTER MANY PHONE CALLS, LETTERS & EVENTUALLY EMAILS..... I WAS ABLE TO FIND OUT THE CHANGES THE DENOMINATION HAD MADE IN THEIR TEACHINGS / BELIEFS.
I CALLED THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, TWICE! THE 1ST TIME, THEY SAID: "THE PICTURES YOU WERE RAISED WITH ARE NOTHING BUT AN ARTISTS' INTERPRETATION ~ THERE IS NO MANSION WITH MANY ROOMS" ~ ON & ON & ON!! (I WAS TAUGHT & STILL BELIEVE THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD ~ I WILL ALWAYS BELIEVE THAT. )
I MADE THEM SO MAD, THEY HUNG UP ON ME! I CALLED THEM BACK (MY 2ND CALL TO THEM) ~ THEY REFUSED MY CALL.
I TALKED WITH THE MEMBERS OF MY CHURCH, INDIVIDUALLY, THAT I'D KNOWN ALL MY LIFE & ASKED THEM IF THEY REALIZED WHAT THE CHURCH ACTUALLY BELIEVED & TAUGHT. NONE OF THEM BELIEVED ME! NONE OF THEM WOULD STAY IN THE SANCTUARY WITH ME ~ THEY GOT ANGERED & LEFT. (I ALWAYS ASKED THEM TO MEET ME IN THE SANCTUARY)
THEY WOULDN'T EVEN GO INTO THE KIDS SUNDAY SCHOOL ROOMS & LOOK AT THE POSTERS THE KIDS HAD MADE FOR EASTER & SPRING! INSTEAD OF THE PICTURES OF CHRIST ~ THE CROSS ~ LILIES & ALL THE THINGS I WAS BROUGHT UP WITH AND BELIEVE ~ THERE WAS A STACK OF THE FAMOUS "SWIM SUIT EDITION" MAGAZINES FOR THE KIDS TO CUT PICTURES FROM, FOR THEIR BIG WALL POSTERS!! UGH! (YES, I TOOK VIDEOS OF EVERY ROOM!)
THEY USED THE SANCTUARY FOR THE SPOOKY / SCARY PLACE FOR THEIR HALLOWEEN PARTIES ~ THE YOUTH PASTOR BROUGHT HIS TAROT CARDS TO TEACH THE KIDS HOW TO USE THEM ~THE LIST IS LONNNNNNG!
WHEN I TOLD MY FAMILY WHAT HAD HAPPENED TO THAT DENOMINATION ~ THEY, TOO REMOVED THEIR MEMBERSHIP. (ALL BUT 1 AUNT ~ SHE DIDN'T BELIEVE WHAT THE CHURCH WAS TEACHING, BUT CONTINUED TO BE FAITHFUL TO IT, INCLUDING THE TITHING. (YEP, SHE GOT VERY ANGERED AT ME.)
IN SHORT, MOST PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE WHAT THEIR CHOSEN RELIGIOUS FAITH ACTUALLY BELIEVES & TEACHES, ANYMORE.. THEY JUST GO ON BEING FAITHFUL & TITHING, W/O ASKING QUESTIONS.
CASES IN POINT ~ I TRIED TO TELL 2 CLOSE "FRIENDS", WHAT THEIR CHOSEN FAITH NOW ACTUALLY TEACHES, EVEN GAVE THEM PRINTOUTS FROM THEIR DENOMINATIONS OF CHOICE' WEBSITES. .. IN SHORT, I NEVER HEARD FROM THEM, AGAIN. LOL THO' FAR FROM FUNNY.
Thanks for sharing that, Jean!
NO NEED TO RESPOND, BUT... I SAW WHAT YOU DID. LOL
Thanks much, Jean!
The power of an internet troll is with them sowing discord at places like this because they get their jollies making personal attacks on others to "rattle chains".
I made an initial response, that you saw.........then deleted it, realizing that the response was a form of troll reward because it suggested they rattled the chain of the moderator/forum, who gave an explanation for the ban.
Instead, the best response is to stop feeding the troll, IMMEDIATELY, which included my previous troll food post.
Then, get back on track with constructive/positive thoughts from sincere people expressing opinions, along with exposing deception and helping to enlighten me and everybody else with authentic facts/truth.