Mandatory Covid vaccinations for school kids
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Started by GunterK - Sept. 12, 2021, 4:07 p.m.

The Los Angeles School District has ordered mandatory Covid vaccinations for students older than 12, (to be implemented by January). This is the first major school district in CA to follow Dr Fauci’s advice. (Ref a)

This flies in the face of warnings about the mRNA shot causing heart inflammation in large numbers of teenagers, worldwide.  This has been publicly discussed in Canada and Europe… but such information is not published by our Dr.Fauci-controlled media (unless I missed it)

( Not long ago, a teenager in Texas died of heart inflammation, 5 days after receiving the jab. His mourning father posted about it on Facebook… he was immediately suspended and the post was removed.)

While the media in other countries did discuss this problem, they still considered it to be a statistically minor issue.  However, a recent study at the University of California presented a different view of this issue.

Their research study revealed that teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems caused by the mRNA jab than to be hospitalized as a result of Covid itself. (Ref b and Ref c)

I do understand the reasoning that goes into the decision of the School District. Their schools cannot be allowed to be “spreader centers”, with students mingling closely for hours.

However, this logic is based on the false illusion that the vaxx is 96% efficient.These days are long gone, with the vaxx efficacy being around 39% against the Delta. With such a dismal efficacy, every class room is a spreader location, even when all the students are vaccinated. (out of 100 vaccinated students, 61 could be spreaders and are no better than unvaccinated students)

We have a young student in this age group in our family… and we are wondering… what’s worse, being in the hospital with a messed-up heart, or with a virus.  (and the heart problem having a 6 times higher probability)?

Forcefully making this decision for a parent is almost criminal, IMHO.

One thing to remember though… the vaccine companies have legal immunity, the school district does not.

Ref a)

Ref b)

Ref c)

By metmike - Sept. 12, 2021, 6:22 p.m.
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Thanks Gunter!

We missed your anti COVID vaccine posts (-:

I figured that you and your comrades would believe the parts of this one study that supported that cause and ignore parts of it and other studies that contradict the results.

However, it is quite confusing to almost anyone because there is so much conflicting stuff being pushed and in many cases, what you believe depends on what political side and sites that you go to in order to read the news that you like to read. 

Let's try to take a look at this specific element of this topic in an objective manner.

We have this study and we have another study, done recently that says the opposite about the boys(they both agree that the risk for the girls is lower than getting COVID).

Covid poses higher risk of myocarditis than vaccine in male teens – US study

"The risk of developing myocarditis, an inflammatory heart condition, is six times higher in male teenagers who have contracted Covid-19, compared with the likelihood of the rare side-effect emerging after getting the Pfizer/BioNTech jab, a new US study has found.

Six out of 6,846 (0.09%) of the Covid-afflicted males aged between 12 and 17 in the study developed myocarditis, which works out to 876 cases per million. But given not every case of Covid and myocarditis is likely to be accounted for in health records, and on the basis of certain assumptions, the researchers adjusted the figure to 450 per million cases.

For 12- to 17-year-old females, there were three cases of myocarditis out of 7,361 patients (0.04%) in the study. After applying similar adjustments to account for missed cases, the researchers estimated there were 213 cases per million in this subgroup.

Existing data out of the US and Israel suggests the risk of myocarditis following mRNA vaccines was highest in the 12- to-17-year-old males subgroup at 76.5 cases per million vaccine recipients."

By metmike - Sept. 12, 2021, 6:33 p.m.
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How can the average person possibly know what to believe?

Answer..........they can't, other than trusting whatever the sources they use are stating/saying and the bottom line is, that many to most sources are NOT objective or scientific.

By metmike - Sept. 12, 2021, 6:51 p.m.
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I'm sure that you consider me not to be objective on this because that's what everybody usually thinks about anybody else that disagrees with them on anything.

I gave the objective scientific look at Ivermectin here as an example of an attempt to see both sides:

                Ivermectin/how to get to the truth            

                            12 responses |       

                Started by metmike - Sept. 7, 2021, 4:10 p.m.    

On this issue, what do we know for sure?

1. There is a non zero health risk to getting the COVID vaccine that for almost every age group is tiny compared to the risks to health and life of getting COVID.

2. It appears from studies that young teen age boys have the highest risk of getting vaccinated(2nd shot) vs getting COVID than any other age group or for girls.

3. The previous study showed this risk for the same boys/ages to be LESS than getting COVID.

4. The previous study showed this risk to be even LOWER for girls this age and much lower than COVID.

5. This study shows the risk for girls getting vaccinated is LOWER than getting COVID.

6. This study shows the risk for boys getting COVID is 12 times higher than the risk for girls(mostly from the 2nd shot) in the same study and much higher than the previous study.

Remember the Sesame Street skit, "which one of these things is not like the other?"

What would possibly cause teenage boys to have a 1,200% increased heart inflammation risk from getting the COVID vaccine shot compared to the same aged girls?

We are talking about the same species of animal and age, not young boys compared to old ladies or boys compared to  rats. 

Medically, this make no sense.

The least reliable fact above is factoid #6. 

More on the next page

By metmike - Sept. 12, 2021, 6:53 p.m.
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Another item is that most of the "events" with the boys,  took place after the 2nd shot.

So the results, even the extreme outlier results in #6, still strongly support getting 1 COVID shot for the boys, instead of 2 shots. 2 shots for all the other age groups and genders. 

By metmike - Sept. 12, 2021, 7:04 p.m.
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I noted  in your study that they used a test for tropinon in the blood to determine heart problems.

This has always been  the gold standard to test people of all ages for damage to heart muscle.

This is a very reasonable test to make that determination and probably in this case too. However, the off the charts difference in results between girls and boys suggests that something really strange must be going on. Something that medically makes no sense as far as a reaction to the vaccine.

It could be partly related to the tropinon values and flaws in using that for YOUNG boys, that typically would have the least reliable results for troponin levels as indicators of heart damage.

Cardiac Troponin Release After Endurance Exercise: Still Much to Learn

By metmike - Sept. 12, 2021, 7:16 p.m.
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Here's another article covering your study:

Do vaccines pose a risk to young boys?

"the study will further question the wisdom of vaccinating children when the risks of the vaccines appear to have an inverse relationship with age — while older people are far more likely to suffer serious harm from Covid-19, it is younger people who seem to suffer the brunt of the serious side effects so far identified."

metmike: The graph below is all that most of us would ordinarily need to see to understand the benefits of being vaccinated. Keep in mind, that for 80+, almost 90% of people have been vaccinated but the ones in the hospital are still mostly those 10% NOT vaccinated.

By metmike - Sept. 14, 2021, 12:02 a.m.
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From our Vanderburgh County Health Department.

Our hospitals are now more full with COVID patients than during the previous surge, before vaccinations.

98.6% of those in the hospital have NOT been vaccinated......many of them young adults and children!!!

People in this county have bought into the anti COVID vaxx bs from their conspiracy theory sites and we/they are paying a very high price for it right now..........some with their lives.

By metmike - Sept. 14, 2021, 12:18 a.m.
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Please, all you anti COVID vaxxers, take control of your brains back.

Use some common sense, critical thinking and ignore the political bs trying to convince you that not getting vaccinated is exercising your freedom to choose.

You wouldn't exercise your right to choose by bashing  yourself in the head with a hammer or drinking poison or sticking your hand in an electrical outlet or in a blazing fire...... because you know those would be really dumb choices which would harm your body.

Why would you intentionally choose to not protect yourself from a deadly disease by refusing to get a very low risk vaccine?

And making it much worse.............potentially exposing those around you to the deadly virus?

That would be like bashing yourself in the head with a hammer and at the same time, bashing several people next to you in the head with the hammer accidentally and claiming you have that right!

Everybody that got/gets severely sick, including those that die, got COVID from somebody else. You have no right to get other people very sick.

Do the no brainer thing. Get vaccinated!

By mcfarm - Sept. 14, 2021, 6:57 a.m.
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all that may very well be true MM. Problem is you cannot force or browbeat acceptance. You wonder why more are not vaxxed. Well a big reason was the dems vilifying the evil "trump vaccine and the next is big gov trying to force people. And then there is the hypocrites leading us and then not dong what they want to force all others to do and down right spreading things that are not true one day and making up crap the next...thankyou Fauci and Co. In our own state of Indiana our gov, his hand picked gynecologist, and the Indpls mayor are all egregious in those respects. 

Is it true that postal service got  special waiver from gov restrictions on fed workers. Another shame right there. The reason I heard are so bizarre but entirely Biden like. Heard because such a large percent of the postal workers are black and many blacks are anti vac then by Bidens lack of logic they then get a special waiver. Always a special class in Bidens world.

By metmike - Sept. 14, 2021, 12:41 p.m.
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So these are your reasons that people are not getting vaccinated.

1. The democrats, for bashing the vaccine when Trump was in office. Yet look at these stats below. They tell us its the complete opposite. They tell us clearly, that the pubs and dems are getting their information from different sources.

The republicans are getting their information from junk science, anti COVID vaxx sources.

The democrats are getting their information from pro COVID vaxx sources.

 It's even MUCH worse now, than the stats below because the anti COVID vaxx propaganda from the right is gaining steam, even at sources like FOX. 

The Red/Blue Divide in COVID-19 Vaccination Rates is Growing

By metmike - Sept. 14, 2021, 12:59 p.m.
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2. You blame Fauci for the lack of vaccinations because people can't trust him. So if Fauci started telling people to not get vaccinated, then republicans would get vaccinated? Same thing with Biden telling people to get vaccinated. I get your point actually but its not the one that you intended to make.

You are telling us clearly that your news sources tell you what to do. If they are republican, especially far right sources, then you follow the advice. If they are democratic sources, then you don't believe them or even do the complete opposite, depending on what YOUR favorite right biased sources tell you what to do.

You know its true mcfarm and the data all shows it conclusively. 

Three in five Americans support new Biden administration vaccine mandates

  • Overall, 60% of Americans support the federal government implementing these two rules. There is a similar level of support among employed Americans for their own employer to require vaccines in the workplace (57%).
  • For both of these new requirements, more than eight in ten Democrats support them, and so do around 60% of Independents. Only around 30% of Republicans back these requirements, however.

By metmike - Sept. 14, 2021, 1:08 p.m.
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‘Everybody I Know Is Pissed Off’

New polling data paint a more complicated picture about the next phase of the pandemic.

"The vaccinated, across party lines, have kind of had it with the unvaccinated, an array of new polls suggests.

While most state and national GOP leaders are focused on defending the rights of unvaccinated Americans, new polling shows that the large majority of vaccinated adults—including a substantial portion of Republicans—support tougher measures against those who have refused COVID-19 shots.

These new results, shared exclusively with The Atlantic by several pollsters, reveal that significant majorities of people who have been vaccinated support vaccine mandates for health workers, government employees, college students, and airline travelers—even, in some surveys, for all Americans or all private-sector workers. Most of the vaccinated respondents also say that entry to entertainment and sporting arenas should require proof of vaccination, and half say the same about restaurants."

metmike: It's like the anti COVID vaxx people have a subconscious death wish for the country that is completely blocking the massive, conclusive science and data about the benefits of getting vaccinated for COVID, from reaching their brains.'s all the extreme right sites and even less extreme ones that are using this issue to poison brains/thoughts to rebel and reject any agenda or positions that come from the democrats.

It's  like the TDS(Trump Derangement Syndome) taken to a new, much more damaging level!

By mcfarm - Sept. 14, 2021, 1:17 p.m.
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I am not blaming anyone. I am telling you what the public sees and its sheer hypocrisy. Also there must be no reason what so ever I am not vaccinated because I have taken 2 phizer shots.

the dems are getting there vac info from science you say. So black Americans are what 85% Dems and not vaccinated both? If all that were true why is Biden busy carving special classes out like postal workers? Of course if its fact on I asked earlier about postal workers is true. 

One other note it was reported last nite that afghans are walking away from these centers with who knows what disease, bombs, and still not vetted in the slightest. What a great way to protect our country.

By metmike - Sept. 14, 2021, 6:13 p.m.
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"I am telling you what the public sees"

I appreciate your views very much mcfarm and welcome them here and you will always be my friend but those views represent the views of the far right, not the majority of the public.

The majority of the public is getting pretty dang upset with the minority that is making the pandemic very much worse for everybody, like in the article above.

As Covid cases surge, unvaccinated Americans trigger scorn, resentment from many vaccinated people

Hopes are getting dashed for a summer that feels more like pre-pandemic years. Now, another feeling has overcome many of the vaccinated: contempt.

metmike: FOX and other sites make this out to be people exercising their God given rights to do what they want with their own bodies and being discriminated for it.

Total, 100% bs and the majority in this country are smart enough to realize it.

By mcfarm - Sept. 14, 2021, 6:29 p.m.
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right MM, those damn people who are not vaxxed. If they would only fall in line. That was the line a year ago and what did we find out in the last year. Well vaxxed people can get the same virus and pass the same virus and yet you use some of the very same derogatory words and phrases and with same contempt that Biden does. The same as an ugly crime family member who was never tough enough to really be there,  just rich enough. and connected enough and have just the right amount of disdain of the American people. Never give an inch of your liberty with the promise of getting it back someday. You will never see that liberty again.

Reminds me of Newson, that awful gestapo like creep in Cal. Without this recall today do you really think Cal would still be open....hell no....and if he pulls out a victory within 48 hours Cal will be shut down again.

By metmike - Sept. 14, 2021, 6:37 p.m.
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"Never give an inch of your liberty with the promise of getting it back someday. You will never see that liberty again.'

People observing that so called "liberty" combined with ignorance about basic vaccination science that is actually killing many thousands of innocent, fellow Americans......REAL Americans, not theoretical Americans that are filling the hospitals and dying right now .....are pretty dang upset with that narrative mcfarm. 

By mcfarm - Sept. 14, 2021, 7:15 p.m.
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still confused about that one. If you get covid from a non vaccinated person its the world's worst sin but if you get covid from a vaccinated person its....well...... what?????? And exactly how would you know? Its a virus that we know little to nothing about except we are learning some things. like how Fauci was involved from the start at Wuhon.

Read a report that 20% of those illegals flooding across our southern boarder are covid positive. Have yet to hear a single syllable from MM or Biden about those monsters spreading covid. Now we have reports of the the Afghans with who knows what diseases walking away from where they were interned and Biden has issued orders not to detain them? Why is this fine and a good way to protect this country? There is a lot going on that makes a guy wonder

And that 20% is a small number, right? Hardly, some months lately 20% would be over 40,000 infected people every month.

By metmike - Sept. 14, 2021, 8:05 p.m.
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Very worried about a million people coming in from other countries that might not be vaccinated or have COVID but telling us 100 million legal Americans have the right to not get vaccinated and to get COVID.

That's a pool of potential COVID spreaders that's 100 times greater than the ones you are so concerned about(from your biased sources).

Here in Vanderburgh County,  hospitals are almost filled up right now, mostly with people that have severe COVID. 98.6% of them in the month of August were NOT vaccinated, which means 1.4% were vaccinated.

Granted, this is a pretty extreme example's the real world, right here in Indiana and actually, it's  the exact people that I live with in MY daily life right  here in my home.

1,288 in the hospitals with severe COVID.

1,271 were NOT vaccinated.

17 WERE vaccinated.

Why is it so hard for you to see the correlation?

Answer: Because your COVID news sources have brainwashed you to NOT see the correlation. You, Gunter and others continue to see the 17 who were vaccinated and say "see, we told you that getting vaccinated doesn't protect you!!!!" 

Don't mind me.  I'm just an objective, independent (non political affiliated) scientist of 39 years. Maybe if I got a job at FOX news or especially at INFOWARS, and told you the same things that I state here, you would believe it. 

By metmike - Sept. 14, 2021, 8:11 p.m.
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"Read a report that 20% of those illegals flooding across our southern boarder are covid positive."

BTW, I am very concerned about that mcfarm but why are you ONLY concerned about that and not the MUCH, MUCH bigger problem and main source for this latest surge higher?

Seriously, why are you not concerned about it?

By mcfarm - Sept. 14, 2021, 10:35 p.m.
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I am concerned because a bunch of hypocritical politicians and bureaucrats alike are not. If they are truly serious about this virus then they should lead and act like it. To ignore all the forms of this virus getting passed around and then locking down American citizens is a form mental illness. Is this a serious health issue or are the leaders like our governor, his chief covid czar and the mayor of Indpls all behind closed doors laughing their ass off watching all the little people jump to their commands? Step back and look at the big picture and it ain't pretty and yes its hard to tell.

By metmike - Sept. 14, 2021, 10:56 p.m.
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"Is this a serious health issue or are the leaders like our governor, his chief covid czar and the mayor of Indpls all behind closed doors laughing their ass off watching all the little people jump to their commands?"

Very Paranoid.

I would bet my house they don't consider this a laughing matter and they are sincerely trying to save lives.

All of their actions are consistent with that based on exactly what you say needs to be seen.........the big picture. Based on the known science with regards to COVID and the vaccinations.

The incredibly ironic thing about the lockdowns and masks is that the more people we get vaccinated, the less need there will be for additional lockdowns and mask wearing.

So the actions of the right are completely sabotaging what their objective is. It's totally backfiring.

You want more freedoms?

Get vaccinated man. It's like 1 + 1 =2. Vaccination science is NOT rocket science.

The rights position is to just do nothing, because doing anything will require people to make small sacrifices for the benefit of everybody(including themselves, because they can't figure it out on their own)  and nobody should be forced to do anything to help anybody, no matter how legit or powerful the benefits.

We should just act like it's hundreds of years ago, when science had not invented vaccinations and when they didn't understand the transmission of virus's.

Be really dumb, ignoring the known science and THE RIGHT THING TO DO WITH CERTAINTY but call it a right/freedom. 

Let COVID do its thing and let the chips(lives) fall where they may....into ICU beds and  caskets  to allow people to do whatever they want.

As stated and shown numerous times, the majority of people are getting really pissed off about that position and its alienating them from those insisting on it, who have obliterated their credibilty, outside of their circle of delusional, anti science, fellow cult followers. 

By mcfarm - Sept. 14, 2021, 11:06 p.m.
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"they are all trying to save lives"   so on the same day all 3 made statements just like you just posted why were 2 out of the 3 caught latter on that same day at public events prancing for hours with no masks in sight, Same for Fauci, newsome, Pelosi, both Bidens, Harris,Finstein. That sure flies in the face of busy saving lives and leading by example.

By metmike - Sept. 14, 2021, 11:41 p.m.
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I think that you know me by now that I NEVER believe in something  just because Dr. A or congress woman B said it.

Or that TV station X or internet site Y stated it.

I use sources for everything and sometimes will agree with them or disagree with them. 

However, as an objective scientist, on COVID and the vaccine, who loves research/fact checking,  the main thing that matters is the science and data. I will spend hours gathering the data/evidence/science and love doing it.

The ones pushing vaccinations are telling the truth and represent authentic science and data. I could care less if they wear a mask all the time or what they do personally in their lives.

When Obama had a big party for his birthday, he was being a hypocrite. Does that mean, when he says get vaccinated, or avoid large crowds, that I shouldn't have to believe him and his position because he's a hypocrite?

It just means that he doesn't practice what he preaches, even if what he preaches is the truth.

When he bought a mansion on the ocean, after years of telling us that the  rising sea levels are going to obliterate mansions on the ocean he was also being a hypocrite.

I already knew not to believe him about sea levels based on the science because sea levels are going up at a rate of just a bit more than 1 inch/decade.

He's got that one wrong.

On vaccinations, he got that one right, just like Biden and Fauci have the science of vaccinations right.

For you and the right, Biden/Fauci's  position causes you to take the other/opposite side.

The science doesn't matter as much as the person stating it.

This means that every time that Biden, Fauci and Obama get something right....... you and those with you will always be completely wrong.

This is exactly how people with TDS acted. It was said that if Trump invented a cure for cancer, the never Trumpers would claim that he was putting doctors out of business.

You could see the TDS clearly but are doing the same thing. 

That's the way it is. We can always see when somebody else is doing something wrong but totally miss it when we are doing the exact same thing.

By metmike - Sept. 15, 2021, 1:22 a.m.
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This graph pretty much tells us how powerful the COVID vaccinations have been.

These charts show that COVID-19 vaccines are doing their job

 Immunizations are keeping the majority of vaccinated people out of the hospital

By WxFollower - Sept. 17, 2021, 11:15 a.m.
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 The disingenuousness about vaccines from certain liberals is clear. When Trump was POTUS and the vaccines were being developed, a good number of liberals (including Joy Reid) were pushing the idea of mistrust of them. And now many of those same people are shaming certain folks, including Black people, who currently don’t trust the vaccines and thus won’t take them. This is a typical double standard that is found in political discussions. The Black liberal hosts of The Breakfast Club radio show and The Daily Show have it right in criticizing Joy Reid.

 This double standard also goes the other way. Many of the same conservatives who were all in favor of the quick development of vaccines while Trump was pushing his administration’s Operation Warp Speed plan are now expressing distrust of them because Biden is now POTUS and is pushing them. They are also criticizing Biden’s vaccine mandates even though they have never expressed a concern about other vaccines like polio and measles.

  These are examples of politically based double standards and tribalism at their worst!

By metmike - Sept. 17, 2021, 11:57 a.m.
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Extremely well said Larry!

Here's a discussion from almost 2 years ago that relates to the tribalism that you accurately have identified in this country/on this forum dozens of times.

It's even more relevant now than ever and deserves to be resurrected as a "must read" here. John and metmike have a wonderful discussion!

                HiddenTribes: America’s Polarized Landscape            

                            12 responses |             

                Started by metmike - Sept. 27, 2019, 7 p.m.            


If you want to better understand the divisiveness in our country right now, this is a wonderful, very comprehensive report.

HiddenTribes: A Study of America’s Polarized Landscape

By metmike - Sept. 17, 2021, 1:21 p.m.
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What’s interesting is how much the tribalism dynamic has changed because of a different political party being in charge.

When trump was president and his party had the senate, the democrats were the most angry and desperate and extreme with their actions/words to fight against the agenda.

Since Trump lost and there is no control in Congress,  the extreme behavior has been more from the Republicans.

By GunterK - Sept. 17, 2021, 4:38 p.m.
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I don’t mean to engage in any ‘obsessive’ posting… however, this thread was originally about the UC study, which showed that the vaxx sent teenage boys 6 times more likely to the hospital (with a messed-up heart), than a Covd infection.

One of the replies to this post showed an article by the Spectator (a UK publication), containing a very convincing graph, while breaking down the data into age groups.  . This graph clearly showed a) that everybody should be vaccinated, b) the older you are, the more you need it.

The Spectator article referenced the source of the data that went into this graph…. so I did some fact-checking (Ref a)

I could not find out how the Spectator graph was created.  (maybe I was rushing my research)  However, on page 14,  I found a table of numbers that did focus on age groups, and it was broken down into unvaxxed vs. vaxxed.. which was the subject of my original post.

(Ref a, page 14)

The table in this study shows a breakdown of infection cases, measured in infection rates per 100,000, for various age groups.

Here are the numbers…

Under 18  vaxxed  476.0   unvaxxed  1192.9

18 – 29      vaxxed  711.1   unvaxxed  1520.8

30 – 39      vaxxed  782.2   unvaxxed  1143.9

40 – 49     vaxxed  1116.2   unvaxxed   880.4

50 - 59     vaxxed   962.0     unvaxxed   729.7

60 – 69     vaxxed  672.3      unvaxxed   487.5

70 – 79     vaxxed  480.5      unvaxxed   367.5

80+           vaxxed  391.1      unvaxxed   427.4

According to these numbers, the indication is that

  1. Up to age 39, you are better off being vaccinated
  2. After age 39, you are better off  being unvaccinated

I have no explanation for this.. I only copied the numbers for you guys to examine.

I would have expected old folks to be more vulnerable. But then…. this is the Delta. The Delta is unlike the old Covid19.

The problem is that this set of data does not match the glorious graphs about the vaccine success, we are being shown every day. I assume, the Dr Fauci team will declare this set of data as “misinformation”.… right? 

Ref a)  page 14

By metmike - Sept. 17, 2021, 10:30 p.m.
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metmike: For the gazillionth time Gunter. The vaccine does NOT stop a person from getting COVID. It arms their immune system to greatly minimize the risk of  severe disease and death.

Continuing to provide data again that shows people that got vaccinated got COVID tell me that you have a major problem with comprehension. 

I counted your posts on this since June and there were over 200. Not one of them showed the truth about the safety and effectiveness of vaccines. Most of them were twisting and cherry picking data like this one does to try to convince yourself and others that the vaccines are not working, which is total bull......again. 

Read the article below. It's people exactly like you that are the reason the US fell behind much of the world with vaccinations and its resulting in many thousands of deaths that didn't have to happen. People like you need to take control of their brains back from the far right sited brainwashing you with bull crap.

The US was a world leader in vaccination. What went wrong?

        How most of Europe caught up to — and then surpassed — the US in their Covid-19 vaccine drives.

Another big difference that explains that divergence is one of culture and politics. Covid vaccinations have become, like so much of America’s pandemic response, polarized along political lines. As of July, 86 percent of Democrats said they were vaccinated, according to a Kaiser Family Foundation survey, while only 54 percent of Republicans said the same. One in five Republicans said they would “definitely not” get the vaccine.

“This political divide over vaccines has contributed to the US falling behind European countries when it comes to coverage levels,” Josh Michaud, associate director of global health policy at the Kaiser Family Foundation, told me.



By metmike - Sept. 17, 2021, 11:01 p.m.
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98.6% of the people in our local hospitals here in vanderbugh county with COVID in August were NOT vaccinated.

1.4% were vaccinated. What is the matter with you that you can’t/won’t comprehend what this means?

Those stats were compiled by honest people at the hospitals  and passed on thru honest people at our health department, who just like all the other sincere people in all the other counties of the US, are all devoted, patriotic people trying to save American lives. 

They are all trying to help us to beat COVID, just like metmike is. 

Sadly, we have a group of people that are passing on misinformation that are trying to sabotage that effort instead of helping us.

Making out these devoted people, who are battling COVID as being dishonest or having ulterior motives of trying to make money off of COVID or claiming that they are just  trying to control people by making them get vaccinated is pretty low and ignorant of what is really motivating us to act this way.

We want to save lives man. That’s the entire motivation, other than to educate people about authentic science in tandem with it.

You’re being very  paranoid, and following conspiracy theory bull. The places filling your head with these nutty ideas are not your friend. 

Do you need to get COVID and die to embrace the authentic science/facts?

I wouldn't want that to happen to you.

At least 7 conservative radio hosts and anti-mask advocates have died from COVID-19 after bashing the vaccines

"As COVID-19 cases continue to surge, nearly all of the COVID-19 deaths in the United States are among unvaccinated people, and misinformation around the virus and vaccines remains widespread."

By GunterK - Sept. 18, 2021, 6:29 p.m.
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I am not surprised about your response to my post.  Please let me remind you that my original post was about a UC study that raised serious questions about having teenagers vaccinated.  Since some of our forum friends might be parents of a teenager, and I thought they should know about it.   Dr Fauci sure won’t tell them.

Further down in this thread, you posted one of your typical “authentic science” graphs, showing how the virus affected various age groups,, and this interested me, .

The linked article gave the source for this graph as a reference.I went to this reference to find the data used in the construction of this graph and could not find it. However, I found a table that addressed the relation of age, Covid infection, and vaccination status.And this table showed a trend that contradicted the original graph (using the same reference).

You then wrote “for the gazillionth time Gunter. The vaccine does NOT stop a person from getting COVID. It arms their immune system to greatly minimize the risk of severe disease and death” “Continuing to provide data again that shows people that got vaccinated got COVID tell me that you have major problem with comprehension”

Even though my original post (the UC study) is about preventing the mRNA jab from taking you to the hospital with heart problems, my latter post (the one we are discussing here) is about getting infected, focusing on age groups. Hey, before you wind up in the hospital, you have to first get infected somehow. 

With the comment above, you avoided addressing the data presented in this table… you misunderstood my post.. and you resorted to insulting me.

Please note that none of my comments claim that the vaccine is supposed to stop all vaccinated people from getting infected. (Joe Biden did). Just the opposite….I was the first one on this forum to provide information about the vaxx being only 39% efficient, once the Delta arrived. Which means that a lot of vaccinated people are now “spreaders”, as I have stated before.

The table in my post simply surprised me with an unexpected trend, as far as age, vaccination rate, and infection rates go. However, it’s a minor issue in matters of the pandemic and the vaxx.

You then wrote: “I'm getting pretty tired of your anti COVID vaccine bullsheet Gunter”

First of all, the table in this study is not “anti-vax”… it is actually pro-vaxx for certain age groups. Maybe you should read it again to understand it better.

Secondly, this is not my bullsheet… this table comes from the reference given by the creators of the graph that you provided.

But then, this is nothing new. Every time I post something that goes against your set of beliefs, you call it B.S., and the scientists who express their opinions are called quacks.  Only you have the “authentic science”.

Right now, this is a typical example. As you may have noticed, the data in that table comes from the UK equivalent of our CDC, and you accuse me of posting Bullsheet…. while your graph comes from the same source!

You have changed. I have always admire you.. how you have always run this forum with an impartial mind. Even in politics, you were fair and willing to see both sides.  But now, you seem to have an obsession with ridiculing other scientists with opposing opinions (just like Dr Fauci does), and you seem to have an obsession with white-washing the mRNA jab and ignoring the negatives associated with it.


You posted about the hospitals in your area having almost nothing but unvaxxed patients in their care.  Wow. The vaxx must have an efficacy of nearly 100% in your area!

When I saw the numbers you quoted, I immediately thought of the early-2020 Health Department order that asked hospital doctors to register all deaths as Covid deaths…. and I also thought of a recently leaked zoom call, where one state’s health officials discussed manipulating the Covid case and death numbers to induce a panic among the masses (nice people… eh?.)

But let’s assume that the numbers you quote from your area are real…So, the hospitals are flooded with unvaxxed people…. However, there are other places, where the hospitals are filled with vaxxed people (such as in Israel, a country that has a higher vaccination rate than the US).The most extreme case being the small community of Gibraltar. In July, they reported an astonishing 2,500% month-to-month increase… and they are 100% vaccinated! Should they not have had the smallest increase?.

When you put all these things together, a logically thinking person must come to the conclusion that something doesn’t make sense. The narrative we are being given may fit here, but it does not fit there.  Right now, here in the US, we are talking about the Pandemic of the unvaxxed Republicans, while Israel is suffering from a huge Pandemic of the Vaccinated.

The simplistic narrative that the vaxx is safe and will make all the problems go away (as Pres Biden implied in his speech), simply does not sound convincing anymore, considering the events of the last few months..

At the beginning the objective of the vaccination program was to prevent infection. Now, this has been downgraded to “prevent hospitalization and death”.

Since you seem to want to ignore infections, and only focus on hospitalizations and death…. I have some authentic data on this matter also, but that’s beyond the scope of this thread.

By metmike - Sept. 18, 2021, 7:31 p.m.
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"Since you seem to want to ignore infections, and only focus on hospitalizations and death…. I have some authentic data on this matter also, but that’s beyond the scope of this thread."

Sure it is Gunter.

This Summer, you've posted 200 times on this topic and never held back on any of your thoughts but now, "its beyond the scope of this thread". From this very thread on vaccinations/deaths from metmike:

If you had authentic data, you would have posted it immediately, like I do because I have reams of authentic data at my fingertips. I could post 20 times more stuff than I do to respond to your bullshit that's killing people because it's friggin everywhere. 

You have to pick and choose anomolous data(cherry pick) to find exceptions to most data (that will always exist in science) and go to outlier doctors that give views that disagree with the vast majority, that will always exist in a new field of study. ....and really on far right sources for your guidance.

By metmike - Sept. 19, 2021, 12:32 p.m.
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From my sister Mariann this morning. She lives in Anchorage Alaska.

"This is what is happening in Alaska and is very upsetting.  Providence hospital is a Catholic hospital in Anchorage.  The doctor’s are having to decide who is going to live and is going to die.   Basically, what you have is what Sarah Palin coined as a “death panel” which she thought would happen with Obama Care but never materialized.  But it is materializing now because of the unvaccinated.  They are causing this crises and putting needless stress on our hospital system causing doctors to choose who gets to survive and receive care.  It just saddens me greatly that so many human beings, a large percentage of our population could be so callous and self absorbed about protecting others and our community.   What kind of society have we become."

 Sent from my iPad