I have to say first so the libs will perfectly understand the obvious that those who committed the acts on Jan 6th should be charged and go to trial. However if the first person found guilty is any indication the libs have way overplayed their hand...again. The First convicted was a women from Indiana. She was found guilty of "parading" and "picketing". Sentenced to community service, fine and probation. Now that is strange because the left has been screaming for months about how they barely escaped with their lives and our government was literally 1 inch from take over. The left will also have to answer why after all the blm protests, fires, murders most of those people were bailed and returned to the street {many by our very own VP} meanwhile several from Jan 6th are still in solitary confinement.
mcfarm,
I hear you on this.
Both sides want to portray the event in a light that projects it to favor their political position(using subjective facts) instead of the objective or authentic facts.
It's getting really old to hear CNN, every single day spending time on it, sometime hours on it and elevating it to the level of 9-11-01.
They did a long documentary this last Sunday, I think that it was. Seems like they interview a couple of new guests every day on it.
They taking a 1 day riot and turning it into 100 times worse than that actual damage.
I'm 100 times more concerned with the frame of mind of the 10's of millions of Americans that did NOT go to Washington on that day and are convinced that Trump had the election stolen from him and should be the president and still strongly align with anything that comes out of his mouth.
According to a log of Capitol riot arrests from the Justice Department, three other defendants have been charged with firearms offenses. But these charges have to do with unlawful possession of firearms and other weapons.
metmike: So a total of 4 people have been charged with firearms offenses. If you listen to CNN and had to guess from their coverage, the guess might be more like hundreds charged with firearms offenses.
https://time.com/5953486/january-capitol-attack-investigation/
metmike: This fact and this event having many, many different investigations already, some ongoing, makes it even more overkill for the democrats to be calling for an additional investigation.
What the heck is it that we don't know and some of which we've heard almost every day for over 5 months on sources like CNN?
https://www.insider.com/all-the-us-capitol-pro-trump-riot-arrests-charges-names-2021-1
I was going to make a joke about you being on the list (and you are NOT on the list) but realized that in this day and age a joke like that could get somebody in trouble for something they had nothing to do with.
I actually do know somebody that works with somebody that went. They are an extremely passive person that got out of there immediately when the rioting started but they are petrified that some of their business associates and customers might find out they were actually there.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Nearly five months after hundreds of Donald Trump supporters launched a deadly assault on the U.S. Capitol, prosecutors have not carried out an early threat to charge some participants with seditious conspiracy.
They may never do so, according to a law enforcement official and legal experts, because of prosecutors' past difficulty in securing convictions on those charges against far-right activists.
Instead, the more than 440 people charged with joining in the Jan. 6 violence that left five people dead including a Capitol Police officer have been charged with crimes ranging from entering a restricted building to criminal conspiracy.
These differ from a charge of seditious conspiracy alleging attempts "to overthrow, put down or to destroy by force the government of the United States."
Federal prosecutors first raised the idea of charging Capitol rioters with seditious conspiracy at a Jan. 26 news conference.
"One of the more significant charges people are very familiar with is the sedition conspiracy. That's what we're trying to build towards," said Michael Sherwin, who at the time was acting as chief federal prosecutor for the District of Columbia.
Sherwin did not immediately reply to a request for comment.
A law enforcement official, who asked for anonymity to discuss debates among prosecutors, said there had been little recent discussion among key officials regarding seditious conspiracy charges, which carry a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison.
The official said that historically, federal prosecutors have encountered obstacles when they have tried to prosecute alleged far-right activists on such charges.
"Seditious conspiracy is a vague and overbroad statute that could be used to criminalize some legitimate forms of protest and much mundane criminal activity," said Joshua Braver, an assistant professor at the University of Wisconsin Law School.
metmike: If you watched CNN at all the last 5 months, you would be convinced that hundreds of people will be charged with sedition. This crime is very tricky though as discussed above and below.
Sedition in the United States:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-115
Globally:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition
Sedition is overt conduct, such as speech and organization, that tends toward rebellion against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent toward, or insurrection against, established authority. Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws. Seditious words in writing are seditious libel. A seditionist is one who engages in or promotes the interest of sedition.
Because sedition is overt, it is typically not considered a subversive act, and the overt acts that may be prosecutable under sedition laws vary from one legal code to another.
well if somebody knows somebody who was there, the way this was handled, could well expect a knock on their door from our once top notch FBI who are now just another arm of the DNC. And I hope and pray they were not "parading" or "picketing"...also hope they never accidently forgot they had their nail clippers with them at the time....that would be grounds for murder although so far the only one murdered was an unarmed women. Just how she was shot and why and by who are now cloaked in mystery....Why is that I wonder?
We’re going to have to respectfully disagree on this one Mike.
The president publicly directed the vice president to violate the constitution. That alone is nearly as bad as is gets.
The president‘s number one duty is to support and defend the constitution, he abdicated that responsibility.
Set aside all the violence and potential violence .
Thanks mcfarmer,
My point and articles are only about the people that rioted on that one day because their brains were/are still captured(they were tricked) by a psychopath with the powers that were multiplied by several orders of magnitude by technology and advanced communication of the modern age but mostly because of his position, as the most important person in government.........the president.
With regards to Trump, we agree completely.
The man should be spending the rest of his life in prison for doing more damage to this country than any person in history............but its silly to keep focusing on this one day event as being 100 times more damaging than it really was for the political agenda.
The REAL damage was outside of this event and continues today in the lives of tens of millions or Trump forever loyalists that are convinced the election was stolen and have had part of their intelligence permanently stolen by Donald Trump.
Mike, well said.
I feel the big climax to this is yet to come.
The possibilities are as varied as ones imagination.
He goes to Russia ? Better than 50/50 odds in my book.
The other side to this is people that get extreme about Trump to the point of believing all the silly things made up about him.
Make Trump out to be a Russian agent and Russia being responsible for all these evils things in the US.
This was manufactured after Trump won in 2016 to discredit his presidency by corrupt people on the other side.
The Mueller investigation was a total crock of corrupt crap to ruin Trump. Every bit of it from beginning to end.
Putin is a bad person, so it makes him and Russia an easy scapegoat for whatever narrative they want to create that has Russia's scheming as the culprit.
Hunter Biden's real laptop with all the real damning evidence............just tell everybody Russia was behind it and everybody will believe it.
Both sides spend much of their time thinking up creative ways to manufacture subjective realities and narratives to brainwash the people.
Forget the authentic facts. Forget objectivety or seeing both sides. Winner takes all. The ends justifies the means. One is always right on everything, the other side is always wrong on everything.
Many internet and MSM communication outlets thrive on this because people actually like this. They don't want to be told they are wrong or the other side is right. They want to always be told that they are always right. Listen to the news told only one way.........where their team always wins or the other side cheated.
It’s been shown Russia had a disinformation campaign during the 2016 election to the benefit of Trump.
Colusion ? Evidently not, I accept that.
It’s only proper for the intelligence agencies to investigate the beneficiary of the effort.
I think it’s all been said.
"Instead, the more than 440 people charged with joining in the Jan. 6 violence that left five people dead including a Capitol Police officer have been charged with crimes ranging from entering a restricted building to criminal conspiracy." MM I will give you a chance to retract that statement. I know you well enough you would never echo the MSM for cheap points. That statement is something they said over and over and it is a big lie. The Violence never left a capitol police office dead. It did though leave an unarmed women quite dead but who did it and what were they charged with and when is the trial? And just where in our hundreds or thousands of investigations about Jan 6 do we find this information?
"It’s only proper for the intelligence agencies to investigate the beneficiary of the effort."
Right.............for 2.5 years and $25,000,000 and found nothing and knew they would find nothing very early on but continued to create crimes from the investigation and find crimes unrelated to Russia for months and months and months.............corrupt man!
It was proper and justified as judged by everybody that didn't like Trump but any person with a few objective brain cells(not talking Trump captured brains) would look at that in shock and realize...........holy crap, our unelected bureaucrats have totally taken control and we are letting them get away with it because we don't like the person they are targeting.
Trumps biggest crimes related to attempts to impede the investigation.
I have no doubt about that one. If you're Trump or anybody in power that knows with certainty that you didn't do all the things you are being framed for and investigated for over a period of more than 2 years, any reasonable person would understand that innocent person trying to defend themselves and make it harder for the investigators trying to dig up dirt on you. No doubt Trump has done some corrupt things but any actions that he took during the Mueller investigation were 100% justified because the other side was trying to completely take him down.
Did you think that he would lay down and play patsy?
The indictment of former Donald Trump associate Roger Stone follows a long pattern that should raise serious concerns about the special counsel. Like virtually all of these indictments, this one does not charge any major crimes relating to Russia that were committed before the special counsel was appointed. It charges crimes that grew out of the investigation and were allegedly committed after Robert Mueller was appointed in 2017.
Recall that the primary job of the special counsel was to uncover crimes that had already occurred relating to Russian involvement in the 2016 election. Mueller also was authorized to investigate and prosecute crimes growing out of the investigation, such as perjury and obstruction of justice, but this role was secondary to the primary one. It turns out that the secondary role has produced many more indictments of Americans than the primary one. A review of all the indictments and guilty pleas secured by Mueller shows nearly all of them fall into three categories.
"First are process crimes such as perjury, obstruction, false statements, and witness tampering that have resulted from the investigation itself. That does not make them any less serious, but it is relevant to evaluating the overall success or failure of the primary mission. Second are crimes that occurred before Mueller was appointed but that cover unrelated business activities by Trump associates. The object of these indictments is to pressure the defendants to provide evidence against Trump. Third is one indictment against Russian individuals who will never be brought to justice in the United States. This indictment by was largely for show."
metmike: You are right, this is long gone but people on one side have faulty memories and bad facts that need to be constantly corrected with a reality check.
But its really pointless to show this. If you are for Trump, you will believe every word and not believe anything that reveals the legit really bad stuff.
If you are not for Trump, you will believe the really bad stuff and anything else made up or concocted by corrupt people trying to destroy him.
"Instead, the more than 440 people charged with joining in the Jan. 6 violence that left five people dead including a Capitol Police officer have been charged with crimes ranging from entering a restricted building to criminal conspiracy." MM I will give you a chance to retract that statement."
mcfarm,
That was not my statement. It was in one of the stories above. I already made my personal opinions crystal clear above with my concerns being almost all related to NON insurrection events and dynamics.
It's getting frustrating for me when I agree with you guys on some things here but the response is not to hear/read what I just clearly stated, instead because everybody is so tunnel visioned they take a posture that is automatically defensive instead of seeing common ground staring them in the face.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/71499/#71501
The bottom line is that in today's world, you either support one side or the other.........entirely.
If you are in the middle and objective and honest...........both sides look for reasons to reject you much of the time because you are not "one of them".
mm, ok, I see it was not your statement but I see no reason for you not to correct that false statement. This does not have anything to do with taking sides, if we all would just deal in truth that would be great. Truth is that guard died of natural causes hours after the "whatever you want to call the insurrection" who will ever forget our brave congress people spreading the lie that he was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher by insurrectionist...again for the 3rd time here is an opportunity to tell just who the shooter was, what he was charged with and what was the outcome of the trial. And if you{you in the general senses} cannot that is fine but the question is why no one can answer these basic questions. This incident is being cloaked in darkness for a reason.
Hint. Try to find most anything out about one Michael Byrd on the internet. Next try 2 tired justice system.
you wrote "The bottom line is that in today's world, you either support one side or the other.........entirely."
Quite true.
The problem is that one side controls the news... controls what the masses know and what they think. And they also have to power to lock people up as political prisoners.