Video of 13-year-old Adam Toledo's shooting-Chicago-facts
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Started by metmike - April 16, 2021, 5:26 p.m.

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Bodycam video shows 13-year-old Adam Toledo's fatal shooting by Chicago police | ABC7 Chicago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCyvrsVchxs

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By metmike - April 16, 2021, 5:34 p.m.
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By GunterK - April 16, 2021, 8:03 p.m.
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For AOC, Tlaib, and others, this is another reason why the police should be abolished.  "a 13-year old child was killed"

IMHO, at 2:00 a.m. in the morning, a 13-year old with a gun is not a "child".... he is a menace to society, and a deadly foe to a police officer who has just chased him through a dark alley.

By mcfarm - April 16, 2021, 9:07 p.m.
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would not want to be a cop right now. The dems goal make this a racial fact. All cops get up every morning and go out and try to murder poor innocent blacks. Do they ever investigate just how many blacks kill blacks?  The kid in Chicago is pretty typical. Was running with a 21 year old felon. The both had guns, they both had gloves. They both had gun residue. And they both ran after a 3rd party was gunned down. The cop corned the younger thug in a dark alley...after several commands that the kid ignored as he ran. If he or most anybody would just follow simple commands that they are given but no that ain't going to happen. Instead he waits til its too late and drops the gun [clearly seen in in a still photo] as he finally drops it or simultanesously the cop fired.  I guess we should all run out and rape, rob and loot.

By metmike - April 17, 2021, 12:51 p.m.
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This is so tragic. What we need to do is to objectively think about what happened......looking at the big picture.............to make changes so that the young people dying on the streets of Chicago and other big cities can appreciate choices that take them down a path that leads to success.

To those protesting and blaming the cops again and using race.

1. How would better training avoid this incident? Should we train cops arriving at a "shots fired" call, chasing suspects that are refusing to comply and have an illegal gun in their hands, wait until the suspect actually shoots them first before they can return shots? If they are already breaking tons of laws up until this point, why would a cop assume that suddenly, they are going comply vs breaking 1 more law and use the gun to shoot them?

2. The cop was just doing his job and risking his life and responding to the circumstances. Now he gets 100% of the blame. Why are we blaming him but feeling sorry for those that created the circumstances? OK, that's rhetorical. 

 It's not politically correct or nice manners to put any blame on the Mom because she just lost her son. OK, I totally get that this loss is just as devastating to her and her family as it would be if she was being a good parent instead of being a bad parent. I don't know the entire story here but if the kid had not been shot and killed, there would have been an immediate investigation from social services to find out why the family is allowing their 13 year old to be running around in the middle of the night shooting guns with adults.  She could have then, been charged with a neglect violation and possible crime. This is the law. Sadly, she is paying the worst price imaginable with the loss of her child............which nobody deserves..........but we must be able to see this in order to understand it................to make the changes to help to STOP IT.

Social workers’ determination of when children’s access or potential access to loaded firearms constitutes child neglect

https://injepijournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40621-019-0202-2

Conclusions

"The vast majority of child/family welfare social workers surveyed found it to be child neglect when youth accessed or had potential access to a loaded, unsecured firearm. Results of the study provide support for the passage of universal CAP laws to help protect children equally across states and ensure the safe storage of firearms in homes."

metmike: Instead, the message that we are getting here is that it was ok for a 13 year old to be shooting guns in the middle of the night with adults and he and his family that allowed it..........are martyrs and the cop that risked his life to try to stop it......and did nothing wrong.....is the bad guy.

One of the worst things of all, is when incidents like this are used against white cops because they shot somebody brown/black or even because they shot somebody, when they were just doing their jobs.... is that people who know this is REALLY WRONG to do this to the cop, will never believe us when we show them incidents of a REALLY bad cop. It's tough to tell the difference when one side presents a bad cop and good cop exactly the same......always a bad cop. 

For once, I would like to see BLM and Al Sharpton, stepping forward and sticking up for this cop and telling the truth, that we need to address the massive violence and crime on the streets of Chicago that the police are risking their lives TO HELP MAKE IT SAFER FOR THE GOOD BLACK/BROWN people that live there.

By metmike - April 17, 2021, 1:09 p.m.
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metmike: This is exactly where the incident happened, Cook County. Please read the entire article below for more persepective, including the words in bold/underlined. This incident was very tragic because it involved a 13 year old but there were other children killed in Chicago last year. The only way to make it better, is to address the REAL problem and join forces with the ones already doing their best to try to make it better.....the police.......not fight and blame them.

Chicago reports 700 murders so far in 2020, Cook County on track to break homicide record

https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-police-homicides-murder-report/8424707/

CHICAGO (WLS) -- New crime data released showed that Cook County is on track to break another homicide record.

More than 700 homicides were reported in 2020, according to the Cook County Medical Examiner's Office. The office has handled double the number of cases they had in 2019.

The Chicago Police Department said some crimes have decreased in 2020, but rates of violent crime including murder were very high.

CPD stats show there have been more than 700 murders in 2020 and nearly 4,000 shootings.

For West Sider Pedro Wade, claims that his West Garfield Park neighborhood is one of the most dangerous and violent in the city is no surprise to him.

"It's very dangerous," he said. "Any conflict at any moment, a small altercation can end with someone losing their life."

The 26-year-old's teenaged brother Clarence was gunned down as he walked home from school. No one has ever been arrested for the 2016 slaying.

The data shows Chicago is on track to break another homicide record - with most victims being young black men.

"There are real people behind these numbers and real communities who are struggling, families who are fragile," said Rev. Marshall Hatch, Mt. Pilgrim Baptist Church.

Rev. Hatch's church is located in the neighborhood where Chicago police announced their recovery of more than 10,000 guns so far this year, mostly from West Side streets and CPD's Englewood District on the South Side. Still, homicides are up some 150% over last year.

"With the humbling comparison that we have more murders in this community than the city of Minneapolis after George Floyd, it means we're in a state of crisis," Rev. Hatch said.

It's a condition only made worse by the COVID-19 pandemic. But there are efforts to make things better with the ministry's MAAFA Redemption Project.

"We see ourselves as developers of leaders and that's how we see the young men we don't see them as documented gang members," said Marshall Hatch Jr., MAAFA Redemption project. "We don't see them as super predators. These are our brothers."

Young men like Ferrice Spiceson and Deron Davis have both lived the street life.  With the program, they are looking to be the change the neighborhood needs to see.

"Being a person who did time coming from the streets, you want better for yourself, because you get tired of it," Davis said. "I chose this way."

CPD reports spike in violence against CPD officers

The Chicago Police Department also reported a nearly 300% spike in violence against CPD officers.

"This has even a difficult year for law enforcement throughout the country as COVID-19 and civil unrest have converged to create charged environments in major U.S. cities," said Superintendent David Brown in a statement. "Chicago is no exception. And yet, our officers continue to work hard every day to make our home a safer place. I want to commend our brave officers for putting their lives on the line and working to improve public safety."

This year, officers have been shot at 71 times, and 10 cops were shot.

This year's crime rate was a big jump from last year and also higher than the murder rate in 2016, which was Chicago's most violent year in recent memory

By metmike - April 17, 2021, 1:48 p.m.
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This article is pay walled, so I don't have anything but the headline below from the WOP.  Assuming that you read the article on the previous page..with the facts/empirical data, why would any rational objective person think that radical police reform would have 1 iota worth of an affect on the record violent crime rate and real problem in Chicago right now?

Chicago needs MORE cops right now. They are overwhelmed and getting shot at frequently. 

Police shooting of 13-year-old in Chicago leads to calls in the city for radical police reform

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/toledo-shooting-chicago-police-protests/2021/04/16/2f992ec0-9eee-11eb-8a83-3bc1fa69c2e8_story.html

metmike: I am all for continued police reform nationwide. Body cams should be mandatory. No covering up facts or protecting bad cops.........hold them 100% accountable for actions. However, this is NOT the problem in Chicago. Pretending it is the problem is destroying the credibility of the police reform movement.....making it less believable  in places that REALLY need it.

By metmike - April 17, 2021, 4:32 p.m.
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Instead of just somebody complaining about the system not working and who's fault it is or is not, I have offered solutions here numerous times. 

Below is one example and it applies to EVERY race:

Also, please stop only looking at the color of people's skin and judging the severity of the crime or damage based on skin color. We are all HUMAN BEINGS. 

Who cares if the cop was white and the 13 year old was brown? That played 0 role in what happened in that dark alley...............ZERO.  

Yes, more black and brown people live in the inner city..............how about we get together and work on fixing that problem.....not because of their skin color but because they are human beings.......please, let's do that!!!

Let's start by teaching(and setting an example) to treat each other with respect, especially those from a different political party or political belief system because they are human beings. Less hate, more love. Less judgment, more tolerance and understanding. 

Anyway, here's the thread from last year:

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/53752/#53753

Young black males commit violent crimes at a rate(in the study that I sourced a couple of year ago) 6 times higher than young white males. Being raised without a good male role model has alot to do with that. Would taking away welfare cause young black men to suddenly metamorphose into responsible fathers and husbands?

Maybe you think that young black women would stop having sexual relationships or use better protection if there was no welfare. 

Turns out that black women actually abort more babies than they raise in many big cities and many of them raise those children without husbands. If they are having those children because it gets them welfare, then we must assume that no welfare would result in a higher black abortion rate.

The welfare system is not the main problem in this case. Changing the culture requires outside help. These people on welfare and in the inner cities that were raised by single parents(moms) or in dysfunctional families, don't have the understanding or blue prints to know how to be good parents(especially the men) or how to be successful in life. 

There has to be something that interrupts the repeating, viscous cycle via the education system or thru local organizations that connect with vulnerable children, starting at young age to teach them. 

I strongly believe that good parenting classes in high school should be mandatory, especially in low income areas with single parent families. Can you teach love? This is not about religion but that's exactly what the 4 Gospels of Jesus did. .....and its blossomed into Christianity that has profoundly changed the world for the much better. What I'm suggesting is ethics classes combined with parenting classes.  The principles go hand in hand.  Teach children to respect others, the value of human life and what a good parent and spouse should be doing in a successful relationship. Have people in their community(ideally from their neighborhood) come in to share their positive experiences as dad's/husbands and mothers/wifes.  

With absolute certainty, this would have a profoundly positive affect on many children in dysfunctional families. 

https://education.seattlepi.com/would-mandatory-parenting-classes-schools-good-idea-1803.html

Teaching  at school can only do so much. What happens when they leave school to a bad neighborhood with a bad parent(s)?

A high % of bad black fathers are in prison. This is another topic altogether but it's another golden opportunity for other men, regardless of color to step forward and be mentors, role models or good examples. This is absolutely realistic.

How would that work? First you identify the men. Many will be from the suburbs, many, will be older and will have already raised their own children successfully. Some will be very young and want to have a family but haven't found the right partner yet.  I have recruited men like this to be my basketball, soccer and baseball coaches(mostly the younger ones for sports). If you offered money, you will get more than just volunteers but most people like this don't do it for money. There needs to be screening, background checks and child protection classes to avoid predators/pedophiles that will weasel into programs like this to abuse boys. 

Men, filling in as a positive father figures/ideally foster parents(even if they are paid) will and do make a difference in most of these boys lives. The younger the child, the better chance to connect with them before the bad things in the world surrounding them define who they are:

https://www.fosterfocusmag.com/articles/just-foster-dads-part-1

Forget about the welfare or no welfare issue or government, no government's role. Either situation is a recipe for failure if you don't have responsible adults that understand what it takes to be good parents applying their love and skills to the at risk, vulnerable children.

Most parents and spouses learned about parenting/married life from being their parents children. 

We spend billions of dollars on the education system but fail to educate and prepare children for the most important role they will ever have as adults. 

If these are such great idea's why aren't are paid politicians and government on to it?

Our politicians and government don't work for us much of the time and their ideas are usually not creative unless it ties in with something that will help them get elected........promises to give people things like reparations for blacks or free health care or free college. ....or to save the planet(sorry if that offends anybody from one party-but if you look at my belief system today,  its the one that defined the democrats from the old days-which included me). 

Being a good parent(and citizen) is several orders of magnitude more important to individuals/families and society than actions to address a fake climate crisis........even if there was a climate crisis. "


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Another thing that would help that is not being discussed, to go along with better training of cops(that HAS been happening and HAS been effective already across the nation) is to encourage them to be more of a part of positive endeavors in the black communities that they enforce laws in.

The benefits are 2 fold. The more officers that you have coming to local schools for instance, to interact in a positive way with students, the more trust that you will build in them. They ARE good people. This is being done in most communities already but there is usually a designated "Officer Friendly" and just 1 or 2 people that go to all the schools. 

Most of the other cops are out there battling crime. They get bombarded all day long with real life negative experiences with criminals. After awhile, human nature, common sense/analytical thinking and street smarts working together create a cognitive bias in them...........stereotyping young black males. This leads to profiling. It can lead to them disrespecting a group that shows the most disrespect to them. The training they receive has to overcome human nature on their part which is telling their brains to judge the people based on their observations.

This can be offset when officers establish relationships and involvement in those same communities with the vast majority of  blacks who are upstanding citizens. This can help balance their view.............to connect with the good side in a personal way and not always just the bad side. Have cops spend a few days in a positive environment with good people in the same community to balance all the negatives.

How about you and me try to imagine the life of an inner city cop, where violent crime is rampant and they are constantly risking their lives to arrest violent criminals who often resist physically and very often are verbally abusive. Of course that's their job. They signed up for that and know what they are getting and should be prepared for it, right?

Still, they are human beings..........almost every one of them good human beings and very few of them racist  but more, them being affected by the challenging environments they work in. 

By GunterK - April 17, 2021, 6:33 p.m.
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"Police shooting of 13-year-old in Chicago leads to calls in the city for radical police reform"

Ow about arresting parents who let their 13-uear-old kid out on the street with a gun?

The mother said, the kid wanted to be a law-enforcement officer.  LOL. This kid would have been in prison for murder before he reached 18