reasons to wonder about the fruad
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Started by mcfarm - Nov. 29, 2020, 8:42 a.m.
By metmike - Nov. 29, 2020, 12:45 p.m.
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Thanks mcfarm!

Trump may be coming to terms with loss he won’t acknowledge

By JILL COLVINNovember 27, 2020

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump still won’t bring himself to concede the election he decisively lost to President-elect Joe Biden. But he’s now acknowledging he will leave the White House if Biden’s win is affirmed by the Electoral College, which is firmly on track to do just that in a few weeks.

“Certainly I will,” he said Thursday when asked if he will vacate the premises after electors make Biden’s win formal. “But you know that.”

Trump, who took questions from reporters for the first time since the election, unleashed another round of complaints about the vote and theatrical warnings that “a lot of things” would happen before the Electoral College meets Dec. 14 that could possibly change results. But while he’s stirring uncertainty about how he will behave in the weeks ahead, there is no real suspense about the outcome.

All states must certify their results before the Electoral College meets and any challenge must be resolved by Dec. 8. States have already begun that process, including Michigan, where Trump and his allies tried and failed to delay the process, and Georgia and Pennsylvania.

Nothing stands in the way of Biden taking office Jan. 20 with a clear margin of electoral votes.

No concession is needed from Trump for Biden to become president, none has been offered and Trump may never admit he was beaten fair and square. But there were a few signs that Trump was coming to terms with his loss.

By metmike - Nov. 29, 2020, 12:48 p.m.
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Trump: Leaders Called on Election Night to Congratulate, Then Votes Came in ‘Dumps’

By Jack Phillips

November 29, 2020Updated: November 29, 2020

President Donald Trump said that world leaders called to congratulate him on Election Night but then, according to him, votes came in “dumps,” while adding that his team will appeal recent court losses to the U.S. Supreme Court.

“All of a sudden,” he said in a Fox Business interview Sunday, “I went from winning by a lot to losing by a little” in key states.

“Many foreign leaders are calling me saying that’s the most messed up election we’ve ever seen,” Trump later said.

The president cited allegations of voter fraud in irregularities made by poll watchers in Pennsylvania, as an example, asserting that observers for the GOP were “thrown out” of vote-tabulation centers on Nov. 3 and beyond.

“Poll watchers are very important,” Trump said, adding that they “got thrown out of buildings” in some areas, namely in Milwaukee, Philadelphia, and Detroit. “Poll watchers were walked out … by thugs,” the president remarked.

“We have hundreds and hundreds of affidavits” from witnesses who said they saw fraud or irregularities. “These are respected people … these are people whose lives are at risk,” Trump said, adding that judges in some battleground states told him that he doesn’t have “standing” to make the claim.

Poll observers Justin Kweder and Kim Peterson—two witnesses at the Pennsylvania GOP Senate hearing—testified that they couldn’t properly observe anything at the Pennsylvania Convention Center.

His remarks came as the Pennsylvania Supreme Court on Saturday overturned a lower court’s order that blocked election officials from certifying the results of the presidential election. In an unsigned opinion, the state’s top court ruled to reverse Commonwealth Judge Patricia McCullough’s temporary injunction that would have prevented the state from taking further steps to complete the certification of the presidential race.

Trump’s lawyers said they will appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.

In the Fox interview on Sunday, the president confirmed his team would appeal the case.

By metmike - Nov. 29, 2020, 5:30 p.m.
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Trump on election claims: 'My mind will not change in six months

     President Trump on Sunday indicated that nothing will dissuade him from his belief that he won November's election, even as his lawsuits fall flat and he fails to produce evidence of widespread fraud in the contest President-elect Joe Biden won."It's not like you're going to change my mind. In other words, my mind will not change in six months. There was tremendous cheating here," Trump told Maria Bartiromo on "Sunday Morning Futures" in his first television interview since Election Day.Trump spent most of the 45-minute phone call with Bartiromo levying unproven and baseless allegations that letter carriers, Dominion Voting Systems, Republican officials and mail-in ballots were all to blame for his defeat to Biden nearly a month ago.

The president also questioned the court system, which has thus far rejected his legal team's attempts to overturn the election, citing a lack of evidence, and he blasted the FBI for failing to more aggressively look into his unfounded claims.

Trump showed no indication he was prepared to concede, signaling he was hopeful his case would go to the Supreme Court days after a judge in Pennsylvania dismissed one challenge for lack of standing. 

"I’m going to use 125 percent of my energy to do it," Trump said when asked how he planned to prove his claims. "You need a judge that's willing to hear a case. You need a Supreme Court that's willing to make a real big decision."

Trump also expressed disbelief that the courts had rejected the claims of a sitting president.

"What kind of a court system is this?" Trump asked at one point, explaining that he would like to file "one nice, big, beautiful lawsuit talking about this and many other things with tremendous proof."

The Trump legal team has filed lawsuits in Michigan, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Arizona and Wisconsin. Many of those challenges have been tossed out for lack of standing or do not apply to enough votes to change the outcome of the election. The president and his team have repeatedly claimed outside the courtroom that poll watchers were not allowed to observe or that Democratic officials tampered with ballots. But in the courtroom, under penalty of perjury, they have failed to produce evidence of fraud.

Bartiromo did not push back on Trump's claims during Sunday's interview, instead asking why there wasn't more outrage about what the president was asserting. 

"You have laid out some serious charges here. Shouldn't this be something that the FBI is investigating? Are they?" Bartiromo asked. 

"Missing in action. Can’t tell you where they are," Trump said, asking, "What happened to Durham?" in reference to an investigation into the origins of the Russia probe that the president had expressed optimism would lead to charges against Obama administration officials.

"This is the biggest thing you could be looking at," Trump added. "Where are they? I’ve not seen anything. They just keep moving along, and they go on to the next president."

By mcfarm - Nov. 30, 2020, 10:35 a.m.
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just another anomaly we are supposed to suspend all logic and ignore. Not only did Biden get more vote than the "great" one the "great" won something like 690 counties, meanwhile biden won but 450.....nothing to see here, move along you sheep

and if that fool from the gov who was on 60 minutes last nite still crying and lying "the most secure election ever" why would he not be prepared to explain just any of the tons of strange and unexplained event of this election

By GunterK - Nov. 30, 2020, 11:45 a.m.
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'... the most secure election in US history...."

I believe it.... IMHO, no election was ever so thoroughly set up, on multiple levels, to secure Biden's victory

and here is a Dominion employee who basically admitted guilt. Of course, this is hearsay, and has no legal weight in a court

And then.....

Federal Judge Thomas Batten has allowed Georgia officials erase and reset their voting machines.  What????? and the election process isn't even over yet. 

It seems to me, this complex story of irregularities and illegalities goes beyond a group of Trump-hating Democrats.... there are bigger players in control

By metmike - Nov. 30, 2020, 12:13 p.m.
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So the question is:

What would have to happen for you guys to accept that Biden won?

This is a reasonable question.  I will answer it for me(with what most reasonable people would state).

1. If there is no substantive evidence that proves tens of thousands of votes were fraudulently cast for Biden and/or taken away from Trump, then I will agree with the results. This is where we are right now. 

2. If there is substantive evidence that proves tens of thousands of votes were fraudulently cast for Biden and/or taken away from Trump, then MarketForum will focus on getting the truth out. You have my word and you know that's me. 

What about you guys?

You are very welcome to post speculative assertions of what might have happened and tell us about fact, I encourage it if that's how you feel, so that you can see the other side(and you are clearly just accessing one side right now).

You will never be censored here for any sincerely held opinion that does not make a personal attack on another poster(opinions that are the  opposite of ours are the best-they allow us to question ourselves) but I will likely ask you to back up those opinions with legit facts and in this case, if legit facts never materialize, what will your opinion be, let's say a month from now? 

If your answer is that you are not sure because you have to see more information then that is a cop out that will allow your cognitive bias to keep steering you in the direction of wanting to believe sources that are telling you what you want to believe.

Take an objective personal stand now about how you will interpret a yet to be determined situation based on reasonable standards.............that are independent of sources trying to manipulate your thoughts/opinions. Then you can come to your own conclusions independently even when there are 2 sides saying the complete opposite things about the exact same situation because they want you to believe THEM. 

You can be sure that in a month from now, there will still be 2 completely opposite interpretations of whether the election results reflected the will of the people or whether there was massive cheating that sabotaged the election and flipped it to Biden.

They can't both be right!

Decide before hand what defines right and minimize others telling you what is right using convincing sounding narratives. 

By metmike - Nov. 30, 2020, 12:52 p.m.
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metmike: I'm just as happy to look at information from either side, as the article below comes from a right biased source. In the end though, the authentic facts need to speak.

Judge Reapproves Emergency Order Blocking Georgia From Wiping or Resetting Voting Machines

By GunterK - Nov. 30, 2020, 1:32 p.m.
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to answer your question... I have already accepted Biden's victory. At one time I had hopes that the "Kraken" would be released and make all our MSM, as well as the foreign dignitaries, look ridiculous for congratulating Biden.... but time is running out. If she had something real, it would be out by now.

So, I am looking forward to a very unpleasant future.....

back into the Paris Climate Accord....

All illegals getting medicare and maybe even welfare...

a new gigantic invasion of border crashers....

ICE , and maybe the border patrol abolished...

Biden jumping when China tells him to jump...

Printing more money out of thin air...

rampant inflation.....

and, judging by his pick of advisors.... more wars....

and probably very soon a Madam President, who has helped raise bail money for looters, rioters and arsonists

By metmike - Nov. 30, 2020, 1:59 p.m.
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Thanks much Gunter!

I appreciate your honesty and agree with much of what you just stated. 

As an atmospheric scientist, honest science matters the most to me of all of them. 

The Climate Accord represents manufactured science to support a non existent climate crisis in order  to accomplish a political agenda.

By mcfarm - Nov. 30, 2020, 2:02 p.m.
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and I am in the same place Gunter is. What am I going to do otherwise. My problem why would anyone on any side want an election with fraud involved...and why does the fraud seemingly always come from the libs? Nixon had to do it, Bush had to endure it, and now if Trump does not cave prematurely he is damaging the country. Trump's battle becoming more difficult everyday. A great question  by Maria. If we suspected this mess with mail in votes months ago why were we not prepared to document the cheating that nite. Our Dept of Justice has let us down again.

By metmike - Nov. 30, 2020, 2:26 p.m.
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Thanks mcfarm!

By GunterK - Nov. 30, 2020, 9:26 p.m.
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"...My problem why would anyone on any side want an election with fraud involved...."

This simply means, they don't care anymore. 

I remember the day, when someone asked Biden about what he plans to do about XYZ, and he said 'I will tell you after I am elected". I have never seen any candidate in history give such a flippant answer. Such an answer would kill the career of any candidate. But Biden apparently already knew on that day that his victory was already set up..


They (whoever they are) know, they have the "ministry of truth" on their side.

"2+2=5, Winston, and sometimes it's 3". 

And in our case "this was the most secure election in history.". The MSM tells us so, and that's it! Nothing to see. Everyone move on!

Re-educations camps for those who resist. That's what's in our future. This is no longer the USA I immigrated into