With 10000 cases A-day showing up in Florida the president continues to push irrationally for schools and Florida to open this fall. To anybody with a brain this seems completely irrational and nonsensical and it is. But there is a more nefarious reason why the president is doing this
Hes trying to convince people in Florida that things are getting back to normal and he needs Florida to win the election. Therefore if kids get infected and bring it home to their parents and the parents catch the virus or die as long as he can carry Florida that's really the only thing that matters.
Trump tweeted this morning that Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and many other countries have opened schools “with no problems.” He insisted that Democrats think it would be bad for them politically if schools open before the November election.
And that folks is what's wrong with Donald Trump and why he so dangerous.
. Here are the new reported coronavirus cases yesterday for the countries Trump cited as a model for reopening schools:
In contrast, the United States had 55,442 cases yesterday.
It’s true these countries are much smaller in terms of population. But while Germany is a quarter of the size of the United States, it doesn’t have anywhere near the level of health crisis.
Like I said.. opening schools in Florida is completely unjustified bizarre irrational and shows that the president is committed to playing politics and winning Florida and the election as opposed to actually giving the shitc whether or not you live or die
He can use federal funding to pressure them, but he doesn't have the authority to force them, and I don't think he should venture into this. (Another area where I strongly disagree with Trump). I'm a states rights kinda guy and believe strongly in the federal system the framers put together. It's a huge problem, IMO, that we get farther from it every year.
Guess what folks
This virus will be with us until we get a flue like vaccine which may or may not work, and no idea if or when
So what do we do
Stay locked down forever?? Partially open which aggravates most people
We need to completely open up and take our chances like any other virus
What happens when the next virus strikes
We are letting fear dominate common sense
If you are afraid then common sense says shut your door and lock it
But I would rather you or anybody do not make my decision
If you are afraid of me then stay in doors and lock the door
That way we are both happy
But don't be telling me what to do. Just stay away from me and you are safe
I will bet you most parents want their kids in school
The few that don't can home school. If schools are closed it just gets worse about an education
What is not to like about having a choice???
About everything
That's what is wrong with this country
Everybody wants to tell everybody else what to do, think, write etc.
Are we communist with no individual choices
I agree that reopening schools should require more discussions and data/facts, along with leaving the decision up to each state and not President Trump.
Again, this is not like Dave insists that everything is.........one side is always right and the other side is always wrong.
The stats in Florida show the daily case numbers have soared higher by 5 times compared to where they were in April. This suggests NOT opening schools is the best decision.
But the Florida case numbers in April were near the lowest in the country for a state that had so many urban areas/high population.
And the deaths have still not gone up significantly/are not following the new cases higher........yet.
One suspects that deaths should go higher but again, lets gather more data so we know that with certainty. If the increase in deaths continues to under perform expectations, then we have to revise our understanding of whats going on in Florida. No significant increase in deaths which in FL, have actually been pretty low this year, tells us a different picture.(could just be because new case increases are mostly in the young adults, who are not so vulnerable............but that tells us alot)
How many of the new cases are from massively more testing?
How many are from reopening?
We will not get the accurate number from the number because of the protesting because this has become a political issue, where the scientists supporting the protests, like with climate change are telling us what they want us to think. Scientists are not little Mother Theresa's in white coats that don't vote and are trying to save the world. They are just as prone to be biased and distort results of studies as other professions.
Regarding this, the classroom offers some structured, social distancing and mask wearing environments which would greatly reduce the risk. It's not outdoors of course but protesters practiced no social distancing and not everybody wore a mask.
Its important to note what the losses would be in not going to school for this age group. Those must be considered in risk/reward fashion.
If we were talking about elderly, its a no brainer because they are such high risk and what they lose being shut in, is not going to affect the next 80 years of their lives.
With a child, education during this time frame is an extraordinarily important part of what determines their success in life.
Closing schools WOULD hurt most students, some potentially in significant ways. If you disagree with that, then lets just abolish schools and let kids learn at home because schools are not that important. They are EVERYTHING to the education of our kids.
Closing them MUST consider whether the increasing damage to our childrens education is worth it based on the ability to have schooling with reduced risks. This decision should be made based on the best interest of the children(and community) looking at the big picture, science and facts, not based on your political party.
This is Florida below. New daily positives with the much higher rate of testing and opening up.............and widespread protesting with no social distancing have been going up the last 3+ weeks. Possibly, over half of this is from the increase in testing. Some is surely from opening up and poor habits/lack of precautions and some from the protests.
Deaths had not been going up yet but it takes over 2 weeks for new cases to turn into deaths. Since the biggest increase in new cases is young adults.......maybe deaths will not increase that much.
Find this data here: https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com/en
Daily new infection cases in zig zag blue below. Cumulative new cases in orange on graph 1.
On graph 2, deaths in zig zag purple. Totals deaths in red.
_DkTL9cw.png)
What's going to be interesting for me is the fact that I'm chess coach at 5 different schools here in SW Indiana.
Schools will open on time in a month here.
Normally, the chess season runs Dec-Apr but last year I started in November to get them an extra month before our tournament season.
This year?
I'm not sure right now. I'll wait at least 2 months before deciding and will need to talk to each principle. The school might have a policy for after school........not allowing them, so the decision won't be mine.
I run the 2nd biggest chess tournament in the state in March. Last year, we had 200 students and 200+ adults, sometimes all jammed together trying to get to the pairings list before each of 6 rounds. It was held on March 7th, the very last Saturday before everything got shut down.................wheeew!
Massive success and if I'd scheduled it for March 14th, I would have $1,000 in trophies at my house and probably still be trying to locate people to refund their entry fee.
There's a lot of time between now and March 2021 and alot of things can happen/change but would guess that cancelling the tournament for 2021 is probably the best idea. Our COVID numbers here are very low BTW but even if I felt confident that our tournament would not spread COVID, there is much more than what I think to consider.
Students in round 1 will be handling chess pieces with other students handling the same chess pieces for 5 rounds after them. Kids will be touching their faces and its impossible to have social distancing. Altough they get alot of benefits from competing in the "Sport for the Brain" it seems very clear at this distant point that the risks far outweigh the benefits of this one tournament.
Another massive project that I help out with here in our community is the Fall Festival. It's a street festival that lasts for a week in early October with 150 food booths, all charities/non profits that use the money for their organization. The Nut Club that runs it also makes hundreds of thousands $$ which it donates to local charities.
It attracts thousands of people each day, who are crammed together during the crowded evening hours.
At the very least, if they did have it, the crowds would be lower than usual and money raised would be much less. Many of these organizations rely on this fund raiser to meet their projected budgets. Million of $$$ will be lost if its cancelled but that seems likely after almost 100 years of this street festival(the 2nd biggest in the USA, after the one in New Orleans)
I just checked...............it was cancelled today but they had to do it. Smart decision based on the risk of having people together like this.
WGLASSFO wrote
Guess what folks
This virus will be with us until we get a flue like vaccine which may or may not work, and no idea if or when
So what do we do
Stay locked down forever?? Partially open which aggravates most people
We need to completely open up and take our chances like any other virus
What happens when the next virus strikes
We are letting fear dominate common sense
If you are afraid then common sense says shut your door and lock it
But I would rather you or anybody do not make my decision
If you are afraid of me then stay in doors and lock the door
That way we are both happy
But don't be telling me what to do. Just stay away from me and you are safe
I will bet you most parents want their kids in school
The few that don't can home school. If schools are closed it just gets worse about an education
What is not to like about having a choice???
About everything
you libertarian argument/perspective is crap and idiotic perspectives like yours will KILL a lot more people
Your mentality is WHY the USA is being slammed again.
to say we have to take out chances means / implies there is NOTHING the usa could of dome or can do now to slow the spread of the virus
sorry dude you have issues with reality and basic science.
FACT ONLY the USA is back up to 50,000 cases
FACT every other EVERY G20 nation, besides the USA, has beaten the virus
WE the USA are doing something DEEPLY WRONG
SECOND... No one is saying Lockdown forever. But you HAVE to obey /grasp the science and
it seems you, like many others do not
Japan's economy is doing OK.
So is South Korea.
so is China.
WHAT ARE WE DOING WRONG?
THIRD your rights are NOT more important than mine
your refusal to shelter at home to wear a mask impacts ME and my liberty
But don't be telling me what to do. Just stay away from me and you are safe
wow just stunning delusional ignorance
Dave,
You have violated our rules now over 10 times since you came back.
I really have no choice but to ban you after repeated warnings. I haven't decided on exactly when because you are providing us with so many wonderful examples of what NOT to be like.
I have been using you as an example of how not to post here and will continue that in this thread with your latest attack on Wayne.
BTW, you attacked Wayne as an American below................you missed that one too. Wayne is farmer from Ontario, CANADA!
Dave says to Wayne: " you libertarian argument/perspective is crap and idiotic perspectives like yours will KILL a lot more people
Your mentality is WHY the USA is being slammed again.
to say we have to take out chances means / implies there is NOTHING the usa could of dome or can do now to slow the spread of the virus
sorry dude you have issues with reality and basic science.
wow just stunning delusional ignorance"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You prove this statement about you below once again:
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/55295/
Dave,
You are a mean bully with extreme tunnel vision views, who disrespects others that don't agree with him and uses foul language and spews hatred. At least president Trump doesn't use foul language but you could be his personality/character twin!
I do appreciate several of your other posts on weather. That was wonderful.
Wayne,
Sorry that I allowed you to be attacked by the forum's bully. Feel free to respond to his attack but please try to avoid lowering yourself to his level and resorting to name calling and insults.
One of the basic flaws in the argument.. The assumption that the Virus is the absolute worst thing that can happen and is the only factor that should drive all decisions.
It's not the worst, far from it, and can't be the only factor driving decisions. Far more death and real misery will occur from an economic collapse than could be imagined from the virus.
The worst case, which is still debatable, is that the virus has a fatality rate of somewhat less than 5%. IOW, a 95+% survival rate. I've heard as low as .2%, but even the worst case does not justify the economic and personal impact of a shutdown.
We have a clearly defined high risk segment of the population. Use extreme measures to shelter them. The rest of us can get on with our lives with low risk.
But I reiterate. These decisions belong at the state level.
Ironically, should the decisions be left to the states, Trump will still get blamed for any negative results, and as we've seen, only the negative results get covered.
So what is everybody waiting for
A magic wand that will end the virus problem
It isn't going to happen any time soon. Get that through your head. Now what to do when we have to live with a virus
Now instead of counting infections why not count deaths and the age group and how bad the infection affects individuals
Now going forward
You ask what you are doing wrong
Your country has allowed the largest numbers of people to assemble in one place, either at the beach, protests, parties etc of any country I know. Did that solve the virus problem??? No: You put other things ahead of infections. Was that a good idea. You know that was as bad as you could possibly allow to happen. Did you raise your voice against mass protest or were you afraid of what people might think???.
You folks live in fear of the virus, racists remarks taken out of context because some body disagrees with you, demonstrators, the police, eminit domain, gov't seizure of property at a road side stop, corrupt politicians, crazy zoning by-laws that allow strip development along road sides instead of community planning for efficient services at a lower cost/house hold -- gosh what don't you fear. So you cower in your house, lock the door and hope for the best. Is that the life you want. Well it is the life you have got. It used to be sanctuary cities. Now criminals don't even go to jail for petty crimes I have experienced the heavy hand of your police. It is down right intimidating. A lot in your country is not right. Crime being one of the biggies. If you are afraid of the virus then you have no idea how much hidden crime is happening in your country. I have seen the under belly of your country for 8 yrs and it isn't very pretty. And that was before the virus. In fact it is bad, very bad. You don't even have half way clean streets in the city. Junk cars piled on top of each other at the curb side. I saw it if you haven't. Junk lawns with junk scattered every where. A real tough crowd at the ship unloading ports. Punks hanging out at the corner. Guards shooting attempted robbery suspects breaking into fenced areas where loaded trailers with goods are parked over night.
I was stopped one time and told to not stop but run every red light light in this part of the city. Do not stop for any reason. Time the traffic so you keep on rolling. Let the horns blare. Just a word of advice and it is for your own protection I could go on and on
You have bigger problems than a virus. although the virus gets the head lines.
You asked/said what is wrong Golly you are correct. You are doing a lot of things wrong.
In our part of the country we still practice social distancing
Now our schools have become so much smaller that we could practice some sort of social distancing with a bit of thought. Maybe not perfect but enough to give the kids a chance to at least get an education. The trade off is an education vs deaths, not infections
It's old foggies like you and me that is holding the country back
As it stands now the economy won't be back to a normal economy in at least two yrs and longer if we stay shut down
People have to work and make money
Gov't deficit is just as big a problem as the virus/capita
You sound like my uncle who had no family
He was always complaining because he had to pay a school tax
What are you afraid of Are you simply afraid because you are scared of the big bad world out side your door. Well I will admit you do have a lot to be afraid about
If you really look -- it is a lot more than just a virus
Sorry for the rant but you asked what is wrong and I just could not help myself telling you what I see as being wrong.
The virus is only one part of the problem
Thanks Tim and especially Wayne for your thoughts....... for not letting Dave bother you.
With regards to the Fall Festival in Evansville IN being cancelled.
This event raises millions of dollars every year for non profits/charities. 2nd biggest street festival in the USA and been going for almost a century.
Not having it will hurt the local community and budgets of 150 different organizations that are devoted to helping others/making the world a better place.
However, the risks were just too high for spreading COVID, with thousands of people crammed together, especially in the evenings with no social distancing possible...........exactly, almost a carbon copy of the environment at every protest.
Even requiring a mask and being outdoors, after consulting experts and using the science of transmission, the responsible adults had no choice.
You just can't have thousands of people close together..... with no social distancing during a pandemic..............not even for altruistic causes that raise millions of dollars and help make the world a better place.
With that being the case, and the protests being a carbon copy of our Fall Festival, how is it that the protests/COVID, according to the one side/MSM are NOT doing the same thing that they would do at our Fall Festival?
A million+ people with no social distancing during a pandemic and the virus will not spread?
I saw one absurd study that is being used that claims COVID numbers dropped because of the protests. Hugh?
The rational was that non protesters were afraid of the crime and violence at the protests and spent more time at home, instead of being out in the protesting community, so this beneficial factor was the greatest.
Reminds me exactly of scientists who twist the current climate optimum into a climate crisis because their assumption is "we have a climate crisis" let's things that might support that. They manufacture that with computer simulations of the atmosphere, using hand picked mathematical equations that have been busted for over 3 decades....for the anti science, political agenda.
Same thing with the protests. Come up with an absurd, anti science justification for political protests when anybody thinking critically, like those cancelling our Fall Festival KNOW with certainty that the protests are spreading COVID.
The most massive new cases just happen to be from the exact same age group and racial make up of the protesters...............but it's supposedly entirely from opening up and zero from the protests.
Like Gunter said in a previous post, COVID is the smartest virus in history. Somehow, it knows to not affect any people at the thousands of protests around the country and to only go after people doing anything but protesting.
Hi Mike
Don't be too hard on Dave
We had a conversation/debate
Some times people express themselves in a certain way
I did not feel attacked
Dave has strong views about some things
If that is the worst I ever experience then I consider myself lucky
Dave is a good person with strong views
However, I realize you must keep some civility on the forum
I did much worse back in the day when Susan was on the forum
I just could not tolerate many of Susan's views and Alex would ban me regularly
I guess I know both sides of expressing myself and can understand why some people use strong views, when posting
I can also understand why some would not know I am Canadian. I often post as if I am Americian. Living so close to the border our news has so much americian content, I some times forget who I am
Just to be correct on the issue of problems. In Canada we have many or as many problems as you folks do
It just takes us about 10 yrs to catch up.
Wayne,
I've seen growth in you as a person posting here.
You are not the same person that got banned for offensive posts directed at Susan.
Maybe you are just mellowing with age and appreciate that life is too short to go around with hatred, animosity and disrespect for others.
Regardless, we appreciate your views and honesty, regardless of what they are.