The murder is on tape.  No resistance. The guy is in handcuffs with no fight. His crime? Alleged forgery. 

That cop will get a long sentence. Why did fellow officers not intervene and get him off the guy since it went on and on beyond the point of it obviously being extreme abuse of this poor man?

All 4 officers were fired but the other 3 need to be held accountable. If this had been 2 citizens engaged in the same confrontation and 1 of them was doing what this cop was doing to the other, all 3 of those cops would have stopped it immediately and  likely arrested the guy on top. Instead, the other cops just watched. 

The vast, vast majority of cops would never do this but thanks to the age of modern technology, these bad cops will pay the price for what they did......swift justice for murdering this guy.

The good thing is that body cams and bystander videos hold bad cops accountable in todays age(imagine the thousands of cases like this in the past that maybe did not result in a death but featured similar abuse........where the cops got away with it).

The bad thing is that if 1 out of a million of arrests go down like this(I'm not implying an exact number) and we see it played on tv/the internet over and over, it feels like this defines a bigger part of the real world. 

Personally, I think that incidents like this are becoming LESS frequent, cops are being better trained, especially because they are being watched and held accountable more and more(like this) but the system is still far from perfect.  

We should be greatly saddened and outraged by this inexusable murder by the cops that are supposed to save lives, not take them but glad to see justice.  I would be blow away if swift justice does not take place. 

Man dies after being detained by Minneapolis Police

https://www.fox9.com/video/687903

Sadly, many peoples violent or criminal reaction screws up the potential for this to represent a progressive Martin Luther King moment/message by rioting and looting and starting confrontations with the cops.

When this happens, it turns off some people who end up hating the rioters/looters and mistakenly associating them with the side representing justice for George Floyd!

What do you guys think?

I am amazed at how well our citizens in general and our police in particular behave until an election approaches. And the closer we get to the election,  the worse they behave.

This incident has more than one side IMO

Police get tired of arresting suspected criminals, only to see them back on the street in a few days or hrs. Did a law or something not get passed where petty crime does not even make it to court due to the back log of court dockets or what ever is the proper terminology, due to courts shut down due to corona virus, thus the back log in courts. So: police are understandably frustrated when under pressure to keep citizens safe. The police know where and who commits the majority of petty crime and that is where majority of people of color usually live.  But: What would your general thoughts be about petty crime and pressure to do something. Unfortunately this resulted in police frustration going way over the top

The other sad result is: 

 While watching video of target looters probably 9 out of 10 looters where people of colour. So: Given a chance with no law enforcement. this is powerful evidence, people of colour commit the majority of petty crimes, as seen on the many videos

The result will be no more target store, so the only remaining business will be stores selling cigarettes and liquor. The riots have destroyed their business community as some stores were burned down, and target was looted

So: Who would be foolish enough to do business in that environment

So: Who is responsible for the slums where business has vacated to boarded up bldgs. and big bare places where bldgs. are razed to avoid property taxes

I have seen this in Detroit and this will spread to other communities of colour

IMO people of colour cause the majority of their own problems, not all, but the majority

As usual in the USA and Canada there is very little room for comprimize, for everybody to come to some common understanding of the other side of most issues. Meanwhile, the divide, in most everything, gets worse instead of better.

Not seeing two sides in this one.  Even a confrontation involving a physical altercation following a violent crime would not have justified the officers actions,   but, as far as I know, there was no physical altercation and no violent crime.   Clearly, based on known facts, this officer was way over the top wrong, probably criminally.  Often times, additional facts come out after the fact that shed a slightly different light,   but that seems unlikely in this case.

That being said..     In a country with about 350 million citizens where about 1 million are cops who engage in thousands of interactions everyday, many with a high potential for violence,  there have got to be cases where a cop makes a mistake, or just engages in "bad policing" ( the most polite term for what we've seen in this case).  Yet we hear of only a few examples each year until we get within 5-6 months of an election. Then, two things happen. We start hearing regular reports and they become an integral part of every democrats campaign.

Seems really curious. 

Hi Tim

I agree with you that this looks like a criminal act by the police, assuming what we know is fact.

But: Can you not see the frustration of chasing petty criminals, and some not so petty criminals, as we saw with the brazen disregard for law enforcement, in Chicago, this past week end with multiple shootings in broad day light. These criminals have no respect for innocent by standers caught in the cross fire, nor do they respect law enforcement

However the public screams for law enforcement to stop the shootings.

At some point your better judgement will snap under the pressure, of trying to maintain law and order. That is your job. It is a dangerous job. Police officers get killed in the line of duty. Maybe your best friend got killed by a criminal of colour. You might ask for help in dealing with the situation or maybe you know, the response will be, either hand in your badge or go back to the streets

Did you see those police cars attacked in LA on highway 101  ?? Those were people of colour from the video I saw. Would that give you a warn and fuzzy feeling to see people of colour smashing police vechicles, all while you are inside, wondering what to do and if you will be charged for a crime. depending on your choice of actions. That's your job but what training did you have, in a situation that could have gone wrong???

I can see the police losing all common sense when under extreme pressure. That pressure was just waiting to boil over

I still see two sides to the situation  I have dealt with police in your country and believe me when I say they never know what to expect on a simple traffic violation

I can see a big problem coming this summer. Would you want to be responsible for law and order. If  the wrong people are in law enforcement then be ready for martial law. Trust me, I think you will have martial law, as the plans are already in place. That means curfews, shoot to kill and all kinds of unpleasant actions and results

Athourities will not stand by and watch this amount of destruction, looting, burning and civil unrest without a response. Yes one or four officers were responsible, but martial law is now required, if the people want law and order, which will happen, and is the worst of a bad situation

I don't think that this incident had anything to do with an election coming up.

As far as 2 sides, Wayne, its the job of cops to arrest people who break the law and this guy was not even a violent offender and did not resist arrest and was in handcuffs and was subdued.  Seems to me that it was extremely 1 sided.

I am 100% behind law enforcement and they take more abuse than any other profession and they have to deal with the worst in society on a regular basis but there was nothing here that suggested the cop was being abused at any time. ..........and even if he was, what was the point on putting the entire weight of his body on this guys neck for 5 minutes straight? 

That tells us he was not following any rules for his job and was letting his emotions get to him. The main emotion?

Hate. I can't say if he hated the guy because he was black or hated him because he represented riff raff that he is supposed to arrest all day, every day and an opportunity was presented for him to express that hatred in the most statistical way possible and he couldn't resist or if this represented a pattern of behavior for this particular cop and he got carried away this time............because of the emotion hate.

That's why he is going to be charged with a hate crime and we will find out more about his background and that of the other cops.

Were there other previous incidents?  If so, his prison sentence will be longer but he will get a double digit prison sentence or I will be blown away. Not sure on the other cops but they should get some time too for watching a murder play out for 5 minutes and doing nothing. 

Keep in mind, that these were trained cops that know the difference between right and wrong. In the heat of a battle or arrest of somebody that is presenting a threat, they could do something impulsive or instinctive because they are human beings. That has ZERO relevance here.

 Did he know that what he was going would kill the guy? Probably not, with all those witnesses and cameras on him who would testify to what he did to kill him. But that's what hate does to people. It blinds them to realities. It lowers your standards and ethics. It causes tunnel vision. It causes you to do things you would never do in the absence of hate.  You want to hurt the person that you hate more than all those other things matter. 

Hate totally explains how irrational his behavior was, in viewing him murdering the guy in broad daylight with a dozen witnesses and cameras on him.

This is why he will be charged with a hate crime.

Crews respond to roughly 30 fires overnight in Minneapolis

https://kstp.com/news/multiple-fires-burn-overnight-following-violence-and-looting-in-minneapolis/5743398/

Gov. Tim Walz activates Minnesota National Guard; Mayor Jacob Frey declares local emergency in Minneapolis

 Fires still burned Thursday morning as the city assessed the toll. 

https://www.startribune.com/walz-calls-up-guard-frey-urges-calm-in-minneapolis/570830002/

Frey and Police Chief Medaria Arradondo promised to work with local community leaders in hopes of keeping the protests more peaceful.

They, along with City Council Vice President Andrea Jenkins, repeated calls for people to protest peacefully, noting that many of the structures that were set on fire in the previous night’s riots serve vital functions during a pandemic, selling food and filling prescriptions, for example.

“If you’re feeling that sadness, that anger, it’s not only understandable, it’s right. It’s a reflection of the truth that our black community has lived,” Frey said during a morning press conference, his voice occasionally catching. “We must believe that we can be better than we have been.”

Wednesday night’s protests began peacefully and escalated into gunfire and arson, with about 30 buildings reported ablaze, and countless others damaged. Police Chief Medaria Arradondo said Wednesday night’s destruction eclipsed Tuesday’s, which was focused solely around the 3rd Precinct, where the officers that responded to the call that resulted in Floyd’s death worked.

“There was a different tenor last night. There was a core group of people who had really been focused on causing destruction,” Arradondo said. “We were certainly prepared in terms of (the 3rd Precinct) to provide for safety, but the crowds got larger and they became more mobile.”

Arradondo said police are investigating reports that some of the most destructive behavior might have been done by people who are not familiar to Minneapolis community leaders. To prepare for additional protests Thursday, city officials said they are establishing a command center that will allow various departments to communicate more efficiently both among themselves and with any other jursidictions that might assist.

Frey called on Gov. Tim Walz late Wednesday to send in the National Guard, a decision that only the governor can make. Walz is expected to announce a decision on that later Thursday, according to a spokesman.

The decision to call for the National Guard has been controversial, with some people arguing they fear it will only further incite a group that has already been traumatized by law enforcement.

City officials said they will brainstorm ways in the coming days to try to help businesses and homeowners who lost their investments in the fire, but Frey noted their ability to offer assistance will be limited. The city is already in a budget crush caused by the pandemic. Frey repeated his calls for financial assistance from the state and federal governments.

“This calls into question how much assistance we do need from the federal and state government now,” he said. “We needed it before this killing took place; it’s all the more essential after.”

He and others promised to try to create a safe space for healing and peaceful protests.

Jenkins, who represents the ward where Floyd was detained before he died, said black leaders are going to develop a healing space in the third precinct so “people can express their grief and anger in a humane way.”

“We need peace and calm in our streets and I am begging you for that calm.” Jenkins said.

One man was fatally shot the night of the riots allegedly while allegedly trying to loot Cadillac Pawn & Jewelry, at 1538 E. Lake St., according to sources. The victim, whose identity hasn’t yet been released, died later at a nearby hospital. A 58-year-old man is in custody.

I grew up several miles from the Detroit riots of 1967. Our neighborhood was never threatened but my dad and our neighbors didn't know that for sure at the time.

In the early morning, Dad would leave early for work and drive by the outskirts of the riot to see if they had shifted in our direction. Later in the day, Mr. Bobian, who lived across the street would do the same thing and they would communicate to each other what they saw............being prepared to get us out to safety if the riots threatened their families. 

At 11 years old, I never appreciated exactly what was going on and Dad only told me that story decades later, not wanting to scare us at the time.  

The riots in Minnesota are nothing even close to this but it's especially sad to see counterproductive, totally unjustified reactions like this after having one of the worst riots in our country's history taking place not far from our house.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Detroit_riot

The 1967 Detroit Riot, also known as the 12th Street Riot, was the bloodiest incident in the "Long, hot summer of 1967".^[2] Composed mainly of confrontations between black residents and the Detroit Police Department, it began in the early morning hours of Sunday July 23, 1967, in Detroit, Michigan. 

The precipitating event was a police raid of an unlicensed, after-hours bar then known as a blind pig, on the city's Near West Side. It exploded into one of the deadliest and most destructive riots in American history, lasting five days and surpassing the violence and property destruction of Detroit's 1943 race riot 24 years earlier.

Governor George W. Romney ordered the Michigan Army National Guard into Detroit to help end the disturbance. President Lyndon B. Johnson sent in the United States Army's 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions. The result was 43 dead, 1,189 injured, over 7,200 arrests, and more than 2,000 buildings destroyed.^{[citation needed]}

The scale of the riot was the worst in the United States since the 1863 New York City draft riots during the American Civil War,^[3] and was not surpassed until the 1992 Los Angeles riots 25 years later. 

Minnesota governor calls in National Guard as Minneapolis braces for more violence

The move comes amid violent protests following the death of George Floyd.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/28/minnesota-governor-national-guard-minneapolis-riots-287869

MINNEAPOLIS — Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz called in the National Guard on Thursday as looting broke out in St. Paul and a wounded Minneapolis braced for more violence after rioting over the death of George Floyd, a handcuffed black man in police custody, reduced parts of one neighborhood to a smoking shambles.

The Minneapolis unrest ravaged several blocks in the Longfellow neighborhood, with scattered rioting reaching for miles across the city. It was the second consecutive night of violent protests following the death of Floyd, who gasped for breath during a Monday arrest in which an officer kneeled on his neck for almost eight minutes. In footage recorded by a bystander, Floyd can be heard pleading that he can’t breathe until he slowly stops talking and moving.

Wow, they are burning down the 3rd precinct police station where those officers worked.

Last night, the violence, fires and looting resulting in the loss of life of 1 person.

Tonight, there are zero police or firefighters present. They are letting the mob burn down their police station and do other lawless things(loot, set buildings on fire, vandalize) with impunity. Wow! Obviously, they know that if they tried to stop them, there would potentially be lives lost, so rather than arrest or try to stop people from these horrific acts, they are letting them do whatever they want.

They have spread from Minneapolis to St. Paul tonight.

Looting, Fires Break Out In St. Paul's Midtown

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/reply_post/52952/

Sadly, burning down this building could be destroying alot of the evidence that they have to use in prosecuting the police officer(s) that murdered George Floyd.

There have been some pretty bad riots in other cities in the past but this may be the first one in history that burned down a police station.

Even more sadly is that most of these criminals........there are hundreds of individual serious crimes being committed,  doing all this damage that are not being arrested and won't go to jail for it.

This person needs to be immediately removed from the case for making this ludicrous inflammatory comment in bold/underlined below. In what world could there possibly be "other evidence" that would not support a criminal charge to offset a video of the cop killing a handcuffed, completely subdued, non resisting person............and taking 5 minutes to do it, which means he had a long time to think about what he was doing and there was ZERO threat to the cop that entire time?

‘We Have To Do This Right’: Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman Says George Floyd Investigation Will Take Time

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/05/28/we-have-to-do-this-right-hennepin-county-attorney-mike-freeman-says-george-floyd-investigation-will-take-time/

When asked if he’d comment on the evidence in the investigation, namely the bystander’s video, Freeman said it’s a violation of his ethics.

“I will say this, that this video is graphic, and horrific and terrible, and no person should do that,” he said.

Freeman said that it’s his job to determine if the officer violated a criminal statute.

“And there is other evidence that does not support a criminal charge. We need to weigh through all of that evidence to come through with a meaningful determination, and we are doing the best of our ability, ” he said.

The attorney’s office later issued a clarification to his aforementioned comment, saying that his comment on “other evidence” is being misinterpreted. 

“To clarify, County Attorney Freeman was saying that it is critical to review all the evidence because at the time of trial, invariably, all that information will be used,” the attorney’s office said. “Evidence not favorable to our case needs to be carefully examined to understand the full picture of what actually happened.”

Watch the video. He murdered that guy in cold blood by any standard of any person or entity looking at the indisputable evidence.  Even long after he stopped breathing, and was dead, he still kept his knee/weight on the guys neck. Then, none of them even attempted to resuscitate his lifeless body when they loaded him on the stretcher. Cold blooded and treating another human being like they were just a piece of meat. 

After watching the video again, I say the killer cop get life in prison and the other cops get a lengthy sentence.

This dumb prosecutor with his irresponsible statement gave these out of control people more reason to be outraged. It's very wrong what they are doing and we should be outraged but the prosecutor  sent a message that suggested that justice is still hanging in the balance.

https://www.fox9.com/video/687903

Where is the national guard?

I don't like to prolong this thread, but the consequences deserve a conversation as I think we will see much more of this during the coming summer.

Why are the people looting, burning ,killing in Chicago?? Damage to police cars in LA, rioting and burning in St. Pauls, the list will get longer IMO,. Why are these people not being arrested

What sane police officer would risk their life to protect you and your property, if you have already pre-judged guilt or innocence. Nobody wants to be the next police officer pre-judged.  Can you blame them??? You don't deserve protection when you have already pre-judged one police officer and maybe four

You have already got the hang mans rope ready. You want to hang these police officers, with out due process of law. Yes, they are guilty according to the known facts, but to pre-judge is your consequence, as your cities burn and shootings happen in broad day light

If you have all ready pre-judged this situation and are ready to hang this police officer  then mob rule is the consequence.. Your cities will burn and mob rule is the bigger problem, as law enforcement looks on and does nothing.. Why would they risk doing anything

Pre-judging is a terrible thing and now you will pay the price. Nobody will protect you or your property

Why should any police officer risk his/her life and risk pre-judgement. Let the city burn. At least your badge is safe. If you want to pre-judge me, then I will let your cities burn. Right now my badge is worth more than your city

Take a good look at the majority of the criminal element in you cities as they burn your cities with impunity. Yes, criminals burn and loot. Take a good look at the videos and decide who are the majority criminals  This is the criminal element law enforcement fights daily. Because you pre-judge, law enforcement seems to no longer have any interest in trying to protect you or your property. What did Wendy's do, to deserve being burned out??? Because the criminals knew nobody would stop them. Law enforcement has decided to not risk pre-judgement, or risk their life. They have seen what can happen if you lose control of your emotions, so why risk the same thing.

Now you want the natn'l guard. You might have martial law. There is a plan for martial law already planned out and ready to go. You won't like martial law.

Colin Kaepernick had a unique opportunity to demonstrate his leadership and show skeptics of him that he is about peaceful demonstrations that his taking a knee is supposed to represent:

Colin Kaepernick expresses support for Minneapolis protesters after death of George Floyd

“When civility leads to death, revolting is the only logical reaction," Kaepernick said in posts on Instagram and Twitter. "The cries for peace will rain down, and when they do, they will land on deaf ears, because your violence has brought this resistance.

“We have the right to fight back!”

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/sports/2020/05/28/colin-kaepernick-minneapolis-protests-george-floyd/5277620002/

metmike: Ouch........he went and disappointed us by condoning and encouraging the violent, deadly protests and criminal behavior knowing that this is completely counterproductive, knowing that these people are burning down their own neighborhoods and local businesses and punishing their own community and innocent people, while turning off many people who associate their criminal actions with the cause.

In other words, the "cause" is much more important than the lives of real people, who are getting hurt the worst by these actions. That cop will likely be in prison the rest of his life. Burning down a portion of the city where they live changes nothing on the justice system. It actually results in people like this completely screwing up the racial justice message and to be shunned by much of society and along with their actions being repulsive, that and their message gets REJECTED because of this tactic.

They can't wait for justice? They don't trust the system?  So they will take things into their own hands and break laws of acceptable behavior that are there to protect innocent people?  Isn't that exactly what the cop did?

People like this belong in jail, next to the bad cops. Sorry Colin, you are no Martin Luther King with your counterproductive advise. 

One of my favorite quotes from Martin Luther King. He would be very outspoken calling for peaceful protesting right now.

This isn't a white against black issue. There are more whites outraged about this than blacks.

It is about racial justice and all races can see the problem on the video. 

It is about good vs evil. Good people don't commit violent crimes, burn down communities, loot and vandalize.

I don't think that this incident had anything to do with an election coming up.

Maybe not,  but we see lots of this sort of thing as each election approaches.  We'll see more of it before November and we'll see the same in 4 years.  A sudden elevation of racial injustice,  or is it just the coverage?

I  get curious when I see consistent coincidence.

Officer Filmed with Knee on George Floyd's Neck Is Taken into Custody

                    Officer Derek Chauvin was fired after George Floyd's death                  

https://people.com/crime/george-floyd-officer-derek-chauvin-taken-custody-reports/?utm_medium=browser&utm_source=people.com&utm_content=20200529&utm_campaign=551607

Department of Public Safety announced Friday.

It was not immediately clear what charges Derek Chauvin might face.

John Harrington, commissioner of the public safety department, announced at a press conference on Friday that Chauvin was taken into custody by state authorities in connection with Floyd's May 25 death.

CBS Minnesota reports that Chauvin, who was fired Tuesday along with the three other officers present, had been with Minneapolis police for 19 years.

The encounter between Chauvin and Floyd, 46, was caught on-camera, with viral footage sparking widespread outrage on social media. In the video, Chauvin is seen placing his knee firmly on the back of Floyd's neck as he lies face down on his stomach, next to a patrol car.

Floyd can be heard in the video groaning in pain while bystanders plead with Chauvin to be more gentle. Throughout the nine-minute clip, he repeatedly asks for help. He tells the officers that he cannot breathe and says that "everything hurts." The video continued until Floyd was visibly still.

In the initial media statement after Floyd's death, the Minneapolis Police Department alleged that he was "under the influence," and that police were responding to a report of forgery.

In its initial media statement after Floyd's death, the Minneapolis Police Department alleged that he was "under the influence," and that police were responding to a report of forgery.

Police also alleged that Floyd resisted arrest. But many lawmakers in Minnesota and others have questioned the police account, pointing out that no video evidence shows Floyd resisting.

Floyd's death has sparked protests, some of which have turned violent.

metmike: He was charged with 3rd degree murder.

We live in a country where there was a gross injustice done to Mr. Floyd.  And the only debate I am hearing is whether the cop should go to jail or be put to death.  By EVERYONE.  And yet,  we are hearing that our country is by and large racist.  So,  the actions of one, or a few bad cops,  are being used to judge the majority.

This in spite of the fact that there is injustice all the time, to all races.  White cops kill blacks when they should not.  Black cops kill whites, when they should not.  White cops kill whites, when they should not. Black cops kill blacks, when they should not.      

An honest look at the numbers does not support rampant racism.  We are not,  once again, getting an honest presentation of the numbers from the media. Quite the contrary.

Are we still a site that honestly looks at numbers?

Thanks Tim,

The number of racist cops is low and with body cams and other video sources rampant, it's getting harder and harder for the bad cops to get away with violating the rights of citizens...........like was more the case decades ago.

And things continue to get better, not worse. We are moving in the right direction but more can be done to improve things. 

When incidents like this happen, it feels like the complete opposite. 

Video of this cop killing a black guy in cold blood in such a savage, calculated manner that  only a very sick, dangerous person could every entertain doing. To think that this cop was out there for 2 dozen years is pretty scary. 

It does make you wonder how many other cops are like him, that just haven't been busted yet.

I say they represent a small minority but they are out there. 

We will never have a perfect police force because its run by human beings that are not perfect but its sad that when the vast, vast, vast majority of them risk their lives to save others lives and to make their communities safer and treat people they encounter with respect,  the image everybody has is of this evil cop.

This murder will result in the criminal cop going to prison, hopefully the rest of this life and the other cops going to prison too for their role in allowing it. This is how the justice system works.

You are welcome to provide any stats that you want and make any points that you want if you think that I'm not being fair. In the past, like with the Michael Brown case, where the cop was completely innocent and the "hands up, don't shoot" was completely made up.......it NEVER happened, I chose to take a position of almost exclusively defending that cop and all cops(while still acknowledging racial injustice and police bigotry).

In this case, with there being no defense of any kind for this heinous crime, it would be inappropriate to spend much time (for me) to defend other good cops because it takes the attention away from what just happened.

We do need to recognize it for exactly what it was and focus on it. The graphic images of this poor man being murdered can serve to make things better but people have to have the right mentality, like Martin Luther King.

If you are angry and your response is to get revenge and hurt other people, especially innocent people then you make it worse. You actually become part of the problem because trust between cops and blacks must improve. Will cops have more respect for you when their job is to prevent crimes and you commit crimes to protest? This too is a form of hatred. 

When people burn down buildings, loot and vandalize they are driven by hate. Hate blinds you. It's the most destructive emotion. People driven by hate, will never get along with the group they hate. Hate is blind. It's the most destructive emotion. If these people HATE the cops, there is nothing the cops can ever do to satisfy them. Hate makes it impossible.

If you want to make it better, then protest peacefully. Hold bad cops accountable by using the justice system. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem. If you live in a black community, make an effort to create a better, more trusting relationship between blacks and cops. Cops see 6 times more violent crime committed by young black males and become conditioned to seeing this faction a certain way. Cops need to have positive relationships with some of the many good people in the black communities to offset what they see all day long..........people committing crimes that they have to arrest........all the bad ones. 

Even good training will not offset what they see on the job everyday......unless they can truly embrace having compassion for all humans beings, by getting to know other human beings they are conditioned to be suspicious of and even develop hate for because of what they are subjected to constantly.

These are the US cities where George Floyd protests have happened

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/george-floyd-protest-updates-05-28-20/h_e04cb48586e847146dddc94fd58ff62d

Peaceful protesting =Good, can help working on changes and the solutions with positives. Sets a good example of mature people respecting others rights while trying to strengthen civil right for blacks. 

Violent protesting =Bad, makes the problem much worse, tears things down and creates even more hate and distrust.  The need for cops to have to intervene to do their jobs to protect the community causes physical confrontations, injuries and even the needless loss of life. Arrests for the law breakers only enrages them more and adds to their hate.....and causes cops to NOT respect this kind of person. Completely hypocritical  and counterproductive to demand more rights by shiiiiting all over others rights, including innocent people that live in the community. 

Yes,  this was terrible.  No,  we are not a racist nation.  And no, there is no data to support a racist police force.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/11/no-racial-bias-police-shootings-study-harvard-prof/

Thanks Tim!

I agree. Many other studies show the same thing.  From your article:

Police kill more whites than blacks, but minority deaths generate more outrage

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/21/police-kill-more-whites-than-blacks-but-minority-d/

Analysis contradicts widespread views about racial targets

“If one adjusts for the racial disparity in the homicide rate or the rate at which police are feloniously killed, whites are actually more likely to be killed by police than blacks,” said Mr. Moskos, a former Baltimore cop and author of the book “Cop in the Hood.”

“Adjusted for the homicide rate, whites are 1.7 times more likely than blacks die at the hands of police,” he said. “Adjusted for the racial disparity at which police are feloniously killed, whites are 1.3 times more likely than blacks to die at the hands of police.”

Mr. Moskos listed two possible reasons for the racial disparity. The first is that police assigned to largely black neighborhoods face “more political fallout when they shoot, and thus receive better training and are less inclined to shoot.”

The second is that police assigned to black communities with high crime rates are more accustomed to dangerous situations and thus are more likely to be able to resolve them without resort to lethal force.

Figures on police shootings by race are thin on the ground, but Mr. Moskos’s results have some support: The investigative journalism website ProPublica came up with a similar percentage in an Oct. 10 article, reporting that 44 percent of all those killed by police were white, using FBI data from 1980 to 2012.

The fact-checking website PolitiFact concluded in August 2014 that police kill more whites than blacks after the claim was made by conservative commentator Michael Medved. PolitiFact cited data from the Centers for Disease Control on fatal injuries by “legal intervention” from 1999 to 2011.

“Over the span of more than a decade, 2,151 whites died by being shot by police compared to 1,130 blacks. In that respect, Medved is correct,” said PolitiFact.

But PolitiFact gave his assertion a “half true” rating because whites make up 63 percent of the population, while blacks make up just 12 percent.

“Yes, more whites than blacks die as a result of an encounter with police, but whites also represent a much bigger chunk of the total population,” PolitiFact said in its Aug. 21 post.

But PolitiFact did not take into account the percentage of those by race involved in violent crime or shootings of police, as Mr. Moskos did.

Despite the recent flood of media coverage involving police shootings, Mr. Moskos advised his readers to “keep all this morbidity in perspective,” reminding them that very few people, white or black, will ever be shot or killed by police.

“The odds that any given black man will shoot and kill a police officer in any given year is slim to none, about one in a million. The odds for any given white man? One in four million,” he said. “The odds that a black man will be shot and killed by a police officer is about 1 in 60,000. For a white man those odds are 1 in 200,000.”

metmike: Many other studies show the same thing. We should also note that young black men commit violent crimes at a rate that is close to 6 times higher  than the rate  of young white men, so that  physical confrontations between cops and black men are close to 6 times higher than with young white men. 

Dialing that in, means that black men are actually less likely to die when a physical confrontation occurs with the cops than white men. 

Interesting study I found...........because its of the state of Minnesota. Actually it was done in Hennepin County which is the exact county that this cop killed George Floyd in. 

Some very interesting things and incredible disparities and not what you would think.  Give me more time to review it and I can add more analysis.

African American Males in the  Criminal Justice System

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/ccj/African%20American%20Males.pdf

 "The focus is on males, 18 to 30 years old who are arrested, convicted, and sentenced in Hennepin County District Court.  Data on arrests are from the Minneapolis Police Department and the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension (BCA).  Data on jail bookings were obtained from the Hennepin County Sheriff.  Data on court dispositions and sentences were provided by Hennepin County District Court."  

"Compared to other states, Minnesota has the greatest black-to-white disparity in imprisonment rates.  In 1997, the most recent year for which state-by-state data are available, the ratio of African Americans to whites in state prison was 25.09 to 1.  This is the highest ratio of all states.  In 2000, 37.2% of the state’s prisoners were African American.  By comparison only 3.5% of the population of Minnesota was African American. The disparities are not limited to the “back end” of the criminal justice system.  For violent offenses, the arrest rate of African Americans in 1999 was 1,621 per 100,000.  The comparable arrest rate for whites was 76 per 100,000 resulting in African Americans being 21 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes than whites.   In Hennepin County in 1999, African Americans represented over half (51.5%) of the arrests for violent crimes1 and whites represented 29.5% of violent crime arrests.  Of all counties in Minnesota only Ramsey County was higher in the percentage of African Americans arrested for violent crimes (52.9%).  African Americans accounted for a smaller percentage of arrests for property crimes (33.3%) than whites (40%).  The percentage of African Americans arrested for violations of narcotic drug laws was twice as high as the percentage of whites arrested, 58.7% compared to 30%."

metmike: With regards to violent crimes, that arrest rate of 21 times greater is not so extreme because cops are making up rapes, and murders and armed robberies that young black men did not commit. That astronomical rate is so high, mostly because young black men are commiting violent crimes close to 21 times higher than whites. Wow, this is stunning. This is real data from the real world that cops live in.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here is a surprise:  When it comes to being charged with a crime, white men were more likely to be found guilty than black men for the same crime. In the 16 categories below, white men were found guilty more often in 12 of those categories.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

However, when it came to sentencing, above, black men got a longer sentence than white men in 12 out of the 16 categories below. With blacks being charged with violent crimes at an incredible  21 times higher, we should assume that many of these sentences for blacks are REPEAT offenses/convictions which would result in tougher sentences. 

MINNEAPOLIS: Black Business Owner Sobs As Looters Burglarize His Restaurant

https://www.mrctv.org/blog/minneapolis-black-business-owner-sobs-looters-burglarize-his-restaurant

"Black lives might matter, but black businesses sure don't. At least, not to rioters complaining of discrimination against black Americans while destroying the livelihoods of the very people they claim to support. 

As progressive celebrities donate and raise money to bail looters and arsons out of jail following a third night of violent riots in Minneapolis, small business owners – many of them black – are spending each morning cleaning up the ashes of their torched stores and restaurants."

"Local news outlets caught up with one devastated black man who owns a local sports bar, which was ransacked and vandalized during the unrest that left multiple buildings across the city burning. 

“Today, we found Korboi Balla, who invested his life savings into opening this sports bar, cleaning up. While our camera was there, looters came back to try to steal his safe,” the report explains, cutting to footage of two black men trying to make off with what little Balla had left following the destruction of the night before.

“I don’t know what we’re going to do,” a sobbing Balla told reporters as he cleaned up the mess. “We’ve worked so hard to get here. So hard.”

A GoFundMe campaign to rebuild the sports bar has already raised more than $35,000 as of 10:30 a.m. on Friday. The attached story explains the sports bar was set to hold its Grand Opening in the spring, but was delayed thanks to the economic shutdown due to the COVID-19 pandemic. Then, just before finally opening its doors as shutdown measures were lifted, the restaurant was looted by rioters.

The GoFundMe says Balla is a local firefighter and that his wife, Twyana, is a member of a local black choir."

GoFundMe For The Crying Owner Of Destroyed Minneapolis Sports Bar Surpasses $350,000

https://dailysnark.com/gofundme-for-the-crying-owner-of-destroyed-minneapolis-sports-bar-surpasses-200000/

Across the country, thousands plead for justice as chaos, unrest grows

“It’s time to rebuild our community and that starts with safety in our streets,” Gov. Walz said of tensions that escalated into violence over the killing of George Floyd

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/curfew-set-twin-cities-after-unrest-turns-chaos-during-48-n1218991

Chaos erupted across the country Friday night as thousands of protesters descended on nearly a dozen cities, pleading for justice in the wake of 46-year-old George Floyd's killing earlier this week in Minneapolis.

Several demonstrations escalated into violence as police cars were burned and scuffles broke out between law enforcement and protesters. Banks, gas stations and even a post office were destroyed in Minneapolis where the the unrest began earlier this week.

Hi Mike

You can show as many stats as you want about racism and white people suffering injustice at the hands of bad cops etc.

That doesn't penetrate the black community or their symathizers one bit. Nobody in the black community reads that kind of stuff. The black community is angry and this kind if re-action is exactly what I tried to put in words and warn about. America is burning, nobody wants peaceful demonstrations and to pontificate about peaceful demonstrations and the white population being at more risk is completely insane to think anybody will listen to that kind of wishful thinking

Thanks very much Wayne! I understand your points!

Wayne: "You can show as many stats as you want about racism and white people suffering injustice at the hands of bad cops etc. America is burning, nobody wants peaceful demonstrations and to pontificate about peaceful demonstrations and the white population being at more risk is completely insane to think anybody will listen to that kind of wishful thinking"

metmike: I read you loud and clear!

Wishful thinking and probably a waste of time but when everybody decides having the right position is just wishful thinking and does and says nothing, then the wrong position continues to go unchallenged.

In this case, I was actually just providing stats at the request of Tim, who has been actively engaged at this thread........and we greatly appreciate both your views here. That and having a bit of personal experience supporting positive endeavors for racial equality has me feeling personally compelled. 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

By TimNew - May 29, 2020, 7:32 p.m.

"An honest look at the numbers does not support rampant racism.  We are not,  once again, getting an honest presentation of the numbers from the media. Quite the contrary.

Are we still a site that honestly looks at numbers?"

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And of course, you know I can't resist an opportunity to show statistics, science, data or  studies on anything (-:

"A riot is the language of the unheard."

  -  MLK

Thanks joj, 

Great  partial quote by the greatest man in our life time. I note it's suddenly being used by the MSM right now to justify the riots. Interesting....... to pick out part of a quote in one speech and use it from a man that spent his life condemning riots. That was his main message on creating change..........peaceful protesting.

CNN did a nice piece in March celebrating one of his best known peaceful marches:

1965 Selma to Montgomery March Fast Facts

https://www.cnn.com/2013/09/15/us/1965-selma-to-montgomery-march-fast-facts/index.html

                This day in history March 25, 2020-MLK/Selma March            

                            8 responses |          

                Started by metmike - March 25, 2020, 12:55 a.m.            

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/49475/

We can put this quote into context by listening to this incredible speech by MLK: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOWDtDUKz-U&feature=youtu.be

Or read it here:

https://www.crmvet.org/docs/otheram.htm

Here are some quotes from that speech(which he made during the time frame that we had our 67 riots in Detroit):

"So as a result of all of this, we see many problems existing today that are growing more difficult. It's something that is often overlooked, but Negroes generally live in worse slums today than 20 or 25 years ago. In the North schools are more segregated today than they were in 1954 when the Supreme Court's decision on desegregation was rendered. Economically the Negro Is worse off today than he was 15 and 20 years ago. And so the unemployment rate among Whites at one time was about the same as the unemployment rate among Negroes. But today the unemployment rate among Negroes is twice that of Whites. And the average income of the Negro is today 50% less than Whites. 

As we look at these problems we see them growing and developing every day. We see the fact that the Negro economically is facing a depression in his everyday life that is more staggering than the depression of the 30's. The unemployment rate of the nation as a whole is about 4%. Statistics would say from the Labor Department that among Negroes it's about 8.4%. But these are the persons who are in the labor market, who still go to employment agencies to seek jobs, and so they can be calculated. The statistics can be gotten because they are still somehow in the labor market. 

But there are hundreds of thousands of Negroes who have given up. They've lost hope. They've come to feel that life is a long and desolate corridor for them with no Exit sign, and so they no longer go to look for a job. There are those who would estimate that these persons, who are called the Discouraged Persons, these 6 or 7% in the Negro community, that means that unemployment among Negroes may well be 16%. Among Negro youth in some of our larger urban areas it goes to 30 and 40%. So you can see what I mean when I say that, in the Negro community, there is a major, tragic and staggering depression that we face in our everyday lives. 

Now the other thing that we've gotta come to see now that many of us didn't see too well during the last ten years — that is that racism is still alive in American society. And much more wide-spread than we realized. And we must see racism for what it is. It is a myth of the superior and the inferior race. It is the false and tragic notion that one particular group, one particular race is responsible for all of the progress, all of the insights in the total flow of history. And the theory that another group or another race is totally depraved, innately impure, and innately inferior."

"But at the same time, it is as necessary for me to be as vigorous in condemning the conditions which cause persons to feel that they must engage in riotous activities as it is for me to condemn riots. I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation's summers of riots are caused by our nation's winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention."

The  frame of mind with the ending of that speech is what made MLK so great!

I don't know of any of his speeches that were not powerful and loaded chock full with profound messages of peace and racial equality. 

https://www.crmvet.org/docs/otheram.htm

"I realize and understand the discontent and the agony and the disappointment and even the bitterness of those who feel that whites in America cannot be trusted. And I would be the first to say that there are all too many who are still guided by the racist ethos. And I am still convinced that there are still many white persons of good will. And I'm happy to say that I see them every day in the student generation who cherish democratic principles and justice above principle, and who will stick with the cause of justice and the cause of Civil Rights and the cause of peace throughout the days ahead. And so I refuse to despair. I think we're gonna achieve our freedom because however much America strays away from the ideals of justice, the goal of America is freedom. 

Abused and scorned though we may be, our destiny is tied up in the destiny of America. Before the pilgrim fathers landed at Plymouth we were here. Before Jefferson etched across the pages of history the majestic words of the Declaration of Independence, we were here. Before the beautiful words of the Star Spangled Banner were written, we were here. For more than two centuries, our forebearers labored here without wages. They made cotton king. They built the homes of their masters in the midst of the most humiliating and oppressive conditions. And yet out of a bottomless vitality, they continued to grow and develop. 

And I say that if the inexpressible cruelties of slavery couldn't stop us, the opposition that we now face, including the so-called white backlash, will surely fail. We're gonna win our freedom because both the sacred heritage of our nation and the eternal will of the Almighty God are embodied in our echoing demands. 

And so I can still sing "We Shall Overcome." We shall overcome because the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward Justice. We shall overcome because Carlyle is right, "No lie can live forever." We shall overcome because William Cullen Bryant is right, "Truth crushed to earth will rise again." We shall overcome because James Russell Lowell is right, "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne — Yet that scaffold sways the future." With this faith, we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. 

With this faith, we will be able to transform the jangling discourse of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith, we will be able to speed up the day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and live together as brothers and sisters, all over this great nation. That will be a great day, that will be a great tomorrow. In the words of the Scripture, to speak symbolically, that will be the day when the morning stars will sing together and the sons of God will shout for joy."

Hi Mike 

I believe you that there are many people of good will in the USA

I also agree with Tim that headlines change when an election comes close. Politicians might be seen to act differently. I don't really know as  haven't followed this sort of thing, close to an election. What Tim says has a ring of truth to me.

However, what is the proper approach to deal with riots, looting and burning

We don't have a MLK

What we do have is calls for the Natn'l guard

I think we are very close to a situation where violence begets violence. There were sharp shooters on the roof of the WH. I wonder if they had orders to shoot to kill or just wound if possible

No matter, these riots are bound to result in tragedy

You are correct Mike, but your remedy will take a long time.

 In the mean time there are some very angry people, who are in no mood to listen to reasonable solutions. I imagine they think or know they have listened long enough and now we see the anger manifest itself in burning down the symbols of the white man

They don't have anything to loss, or so they think,  as the anger of Flloyd boils over. The anger is so great, that now is the time to strike a blow to the white man, 

They want to destroy every thing the white man owns, disrupt the white mans way of life as the riots have spread out to numerous cities. I doubt many have thought to much about what they are doing except destruction seems as good as any way to fight back

I wonder if we have reached the point when dead people will stop the riots. After all, the gov't has the most and biggest guns. Guns usually end most rebellions, one way or another..

Thanks Wayne,

Actually the biggest part of the solution is getting 0 discussion right now and sadly this horrible tragedy that deserves attention and   justice  is taking us even farther from the only solution that will ever work.

It's a solution that law enforcement has no control over. 

It's a solution that only the black community can control. 

Maybe you think that you know what it is. Many people have an opinion on this. As a scientist, I will show you the data/facts/science. 

From the peer reviewed study for the state of MN above:

African American Males in the  Criminal Justice System

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/ccj/African%20American%20Males.pdf

" For violent offenses, the arrest rate of African Americans in 1999 was 1,621 per 100,000.  The comparable arrest rate for whites was 76 per 100,000 resulting in African Americans being 21 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes than whites."

I have been using National data that the rate was 6 times higher but for MN, it's the highest of any state. 

Think about what that means.

If you lined up 22 violent criminals, with 21 being black and 1 white and asked the entire police force, 1 at a time to guess what the color of the skin will be of the next man in that group to commit a violent crime, only a nimrod would not guess black.

Using unbiased facts/statistics and ignoring personal feelings, if you are a cop in MN, your reality is that a black man is 21 times more likely to commit a violent crime when you are out there in the real world.

We need to train cops to look beyond that and see everybody as a human being but you really think these guys are idiots and don't have common sense? 

How do you NOT have the profiling mentality when your job requires that you be STREET SMART, not just to protect yourself but in assessing the surroundings and threats using your knowledge of objective facts.

Blacks committing 21 times more violent crime is an objective fact. 

The best way to cut down the confrontations between cops and black men is to cut down on the stratospheric number of violent crimes committed by black men, who must be arrested by cops.

If this was about race, then why don't we also have a similar situation with BLACK women? They are black too. There are just as many black women out there.  Why is it always black MEN. Because black women don't commit all the violent crimes.....21 times the rate in MN compared to white men.

And this is why violent protesting, committing crimes is so counterproductive and the exact wrong thing to do to fix the problem. 

The biggest problem is too much crime committed by black males, how can the solution involve committing more crimes? The solution must involve peace and an understanding of what the problem really is. 

I have been an advocate for racial equality for decades. I grew up in Detroit and have many wonderful blacks in our family(my son in law is black).

However, if I was a cop in the state of MN, despite treating each person the same and with respect, I would profile and be more suspicious of many blacks. Not from being a racist but from being an intelligent, analytical human being. 

If purple people of a certain gender were committing 21 times more crime than orange people, my common sense would tell me, there is a 21 times greater chance that any particular purple person, all things being equal under suspicious circumstances..........and  I will KNOW this, not think it but KNOW it as a fact,  that the purple person is 21 times more likely to be guilty.

If you flipped that around and orange people started committing 21 times more crime, then that's who I will be profiling using common sense to try to do my job best.......which is to make the community safe for law abiding citizens of every color.

Do some of these cops hate black men because they commit 21 times more crime and  it causes them to lose respect for them and treat them as less human? You bet. That has to happen. It's human nature. That's where better training and better psychological testing might help to weed out people like that but c'mon, 21 times more violent crime and that side is not taking ANY responsibility or being held accountable and we somehow think the other side is totally to blame?

If it was 2 or 3 times more violent crime, that would be bad enough but 21 times more violent crime and the reason it stays that way is because everybody keeps looking elsewhere and blaming every body except the criminals. 

I've already posted numerous times about what I think the solutions should be including mentoring of young black youth, connecting them to positive role models,  tutoring and job creation in the inner cities as well as making parenting classes mandatory in every inner city high school. 

Also, getting local cops involved in the black community so they have a positive relationship with good black citizens they respect to offset them be bombarded all day long with nothing but the worst..........confrontations with young black men committing violent crimes which they have to arrest. After awhile, it erodes their respect for young black men if there is nothing there to balance it. 

To be clear, in case you didn't read the my previous posts, this was a heinous hate crime of cold blooded murder that deserves the max sentence and there are no excuses and his accomplices deserve  time in prison. This was a good man that died by all accounts but even a bad man should be treated  with the respect that all human beings deserve.

I am just telling you what the most effective solution would be for obtaining more respect for young black males going forward..........they need to do more to earn it and in reversing the condition which is causing the the very justified  rational behind cops being suspicious of them. 

"This was a good man by all accounts"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5WD9mX5dOg

Turns Out George Floyd Has An Extensive Criminal History Including Prison & Robbery With A Firearm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5WD9mX5dOg

Hi Hayman, Nice to see you back after a few months!

I'm so glad that you provided this guy with his proof of the extensive criminal history and comments to go with it.

1. It shows that some people in society think that some human lives are worth more than other human lives. I'm not sure if the guy commentating is racist or not (I would guess yes just based on how he feels about George) but he surely thinks that because George Floyd has a long history of breaking the law, that we should be less outraged over what the officer did.  In his world, murdering law abiding, good citizens would justify more outrage than murdering law breakers, who are less important.

2. This sheds some light on the prosecutors ludicrous statement on Thursday to excuse not filing charges yet: “And there is other evidence that does not support a criminal charge. We need to weigh through all of that evidence to come through with a meaningful determination, and we are doing the best of our ability, ” he said." https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/05/28/we-have-to-do-this-right-hennepin-county-attorney-mike-freeman-says-george-floyd-investigation-will-take-time/

He may have been giving great weight to Mr. Floyd's long criminal history and sympathizing for what was going thru the murdering cops mind.

3. This is the comment below the video at you link: "If any of the officers knew this information when they contacted or ran his name, IT will Help the Officers justify the additional Force.  I know a lot of people say his past does not matter, but it does just like the officer's prior complaints and discipline matters."

George was in handcuffs, totally subdued and a ZERO threat and offering ZERO resistance. How does the long criminal history justify "the additional force"?  More than 5 minutes after those conditions were clearly in affect. Even after George stopped breathing and was dead, the cop continued with the additional force on his neck. How does one justify additional force on a dead person? Then, they flopped his non breathing, dead body with no pulse on to the stretcher and not one of them attempted to revive him or show concern. Certainly the paramedics must have  tried to revive him in the amblulance, we assume but before then, they all treated him like a worthless piece of trash. Because of his long criminal record?

4. Those cops may have been totally desensitized from years of arresting black criminals. Lacking compassion and driven by hatred and judgementalism.  Police departments need to identify cops like that and get them the hell away from an environment where they can seriously harm people because of their disrespect for "bad" humans who they encounter and judge on a regular basis.

5. This was an extreme case of how real bad cops motivated by hatred react. Even if we root out and eliminate the worst cops, because they are human beings, cops will never be perfect. When blacks commit 21 times more felonies than whites, like they do in MN, this will result in, even good cops, in some cases profiling and treating blacks differently because they will have less respect for those with a very long rap sheet and because they need to be prepared to use more force in situations that might require it.

If for instance, a cop is arresting a small black female with no priors, he is very unlikely to feel the need to use force or treat her the exact same way as he would a 250 lb man with a long rap sheet, especially knowing that there is a 21 times higher threat to him from this man in addition to the physical difference.

Reviews of cases with cops accused of using excessive take those factors into account.

This was not one of those cases as I mentioned because George was not a threat because he was handcuffed and on the ground and deadly force was NEVER called for, let alone sustained well past the man being dead.

So how do we get cops to use the same amount of force with black men as they do with black women? Better training to establish disciplined protocol that determines limits..........though each confrontation, being unpredictable will still result in some judgment calls.

I'll be that exists now but this last week's incident tells us it gets completely ignored sometimes.

To really reduce  excessive force, confrontations and profiling by the greatest amount, reducing the violent crimes committed by blacks is needed.

Progressive society,  laws protecting blacks and providing equal rights for blacks have helped us to continue to move in the right direction............and we should continue with more progress, using this horrible incident to help us but the element which is hindering the greatest amount of future progress now is the lack of society recognizing and addressing the massive violent crime rate of young black men.

There may be more blacks in prison/jail than there should be because of racial bias  of the judicial system/law but the vast, vast majority of black men are in prison because they  really did commit violent crimes. 

Let's work on changing this behavior instead of excusing it, ignoring it or blaming other people/things for the entire problem.

According to CNN tonight, the police are responsible for much of the violence continuing.

They say that the police are abusing protestors and its enraging them. People watching on tv are watching the police abuse the protesters and its causing them to want to join the protests the next night.  

Well, maybe those watching CNN are being told this but it seems hard to imagine that people throwing bricks and other objects at police, burning down buildings of innocent people and looting are being abused.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/george-floyd-protests-05-30-20/index.html

• Protests have erupted in at least 30 US cities over the death of unarmed black man George Floyd at the hands of a police officer in Minneapolis, Minnesota. 
• Protesters say they want to see charges for all four police officers involved in the death of Floyd.
• One former officer, who was seen in a video with his knee on Floyd's neck, was charged with third-degree murder and manslaughter — but protesters and critics believe the charge isn't harsh enough. 

metmike: MLK, who held nothing but peaceful protests is rolling in his grave right now. Every single one of his famous protests were peaceful. He constantly condemned violent protests. The MSM is currently using a quote from one of his speeches where he explains WHY people express themselves with violent protests, even as he condemned violent protests.  

It dishonors this great man to take him out of context like this if you have actually listened to  and read most of his speeches. 

Nothing  was ever thrown at police at his protests.........despite them often being disrespected and even arrested. Not one building or car lit on fire. Not one business looted. Never any violence by anybody. This is exactly how he won over so many millions and is one of the most respected and revered man in history. Violence and riots turn off people and cause people that hate you to have a reason to hate you even more.

People that protest over  crimes by going on a crime spree that hurts numerous innocent people............... belong in jail, not in a chair/place at the bargaining table!

Martin Luther King Jr.: 8 peaceful protests that bolstered civil rights

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/0115/Martin-Luther-King-Jr.-8-peaceful-protests-that-bolstered-civil-rights/Montgomery-bus-boycott-1955-56

Alveda King: As riots spread across US, heed words of my Uncle Martin Luther King to end violence and racism

        By        Dr. Alveda King | Fox News

"People are human beings with so much more uniting us than dividing us. People have human personalities. As Martin Luther King once said: “When we value the human personality we won't kill anybody.” He also said: “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. I have decided to stick with love; hate is too great a burden to bear.”

In the midst of the Minneapolis crisis, President Trump has said anarchists must not be allowed to drown out the voices of peaceful protesters. Now is a time for a peaceful protest prayer and repentance.

I am saddened yet undaunted that a quote from my Uncle Martin is being taken out of context. The prophet said that "violence is the language of the unheard.” Some people are calling this an endorsement of violence, but nothing could be further from the truth. MLK spoke those words in defense of non-violence; he refused to promote violence as a solution to the ills of society."

In spending more time looking at facts surrounding this case, I've found circumstances that, if people would view them with an open mind, would help us resolve this problem more effectively.

This was a cold blooded murder and the murderer deserves a long prison sentence. His accomplices deserve time in prison too. It doesn't matter that George Floyd had a criminal record with violent felonies.........he was a human being that deserved humanity, especially from those who should be the best trained in dealing with violent criminals.........it's a big part of their job. 

But we will not fix the problem by having perfect cops. The problem in Minnesota is the 21 times higher violent crime rate of young black men vs young white men.  How much better will the lives of  young black violent criminals be that are treated respectfully by cops........on their way to prison?

We MUST address the extraordinarily high rate of violent crime committed by young black men. Turns out, studies show that a higher % of young white men die in confrontations with cops based on the ratio of incidents. By cutting the incidents in half, for instance, you cut in half the confrontations with cops. Cutting them by 80%........cuts the confrontations by 80% and brings the crime rate closer but still higher than the crime committed by whites.

But the most important benefit of all by a wide margin would be to the lives of young black men and their families. Their children would have an active father for instance. Society would benefit from less crime. Their productivity and self confidence would benefit.  Freedom and a much higher quality of life compared to being in prison.

WT-heck is wrong with society in not seeing this?

This is the REAL world:

From the peer reviewed study for the state of MN above:

African American Males in the  Criminal Justice System

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/ccj/African%20American%20Males.pdf

" For violent offenses, the arrest rate of African Americans in 1999 was 1,621 per 100,000.  The comparable arrest rate for whites was 76 per 100,000 resulting in African Americans being 21 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes than whites."

If we reigned in violent crime by young black men, cops would not feel the subconscious need (even after training) to profile using their street smarts and instincts living in a world of violent crime that requires this to survive. 

I have been a racial justice warrior for decades, raised by a man that grew up in the inner city of Detroit and was a civil rights activist in the day of MLK. 

Today's civil rights message and agenda has been hijacked by politics. It's great that everybody is protesting and want equal justice for young black men in law enforcement and other areas but they are completely accepting.........in fact condoning personal behavior of crime by not holding those accountable and worst of all, sentencing young black men to lives in prison because even honest, non racist cops will still arrest them for their crimes.

This was one of the most powerful moments in history. Moments like this can be used to get everyone's attention to make needed changes. Sadly, it's causing us to look farther away from the only change that can ever lift up young black men so that they enjoy the life they deserve in this country. 

We are being sold on the idea that its all about white racist cops that hate blacks.

Did you know that 2 of the cops in this case were minorities?

“People don't have a baseline of an understanding of what anti-blackness even is,” a Hmong American organizer told NBC Asian America.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/officer-who-stood-george-floyd-died-asian-american-we-need-n1221311

metmike: What about the fact that the murdering cop's wife in a minority?

This doesn't make him or them less guilty of cold blooded murder but there is much more to it than just another case of white racist cops killing blacks because they hate hate blacks.

How about....................young black men committing 21 times more violent crime than young white men?

This doesn't happen to black women, why not? Common sense. 

George Floyd did nothing to deserve this. His killing is so graphic and the person that did it so cold hearted and filled with hate that it causes us to be overwhelmed with emotions and be revolted. To despise the criminal cop and the act with every cell in our body.  Filled with compassion for George as a fellow human being and all young black men in similar situations.

We are seeing many millions, the entire country expressing support for this cause. But we are being misguided about what the real cause is, if you REALLY want to help young black men vs being manipulated by racial narratives. 

This is something I have stood for long before George Floyd was murdered by a racist cop:

                My Take on Politicans            

                            11 responses |               

                Started by mikempt - Oct. 6, 2019, 8:12 a.

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/40468/

"You assume then, that not having welfare, will cause these same people, to get married and not commit crimes and decide to go back in a time machine and have new parents to raise them differently. 

So the question really is, what came first. The welfare they received for being this way or the culture that they were raised in that caused them to be this way.

Oh, maybe it was because the grandparent taught the parent to be this way.

If we are going back that far, then we are talking exactly about my Dad. Exactly. Raised by a single Mom with zero child support and zero dad but on welfare in the inner city of Detroit. Turns out, that my Dad was a smashing success. Dad says that being on "The Welfare" as he calls it was a massive embarrassment in those days. They tried to hide it from their classmates/friends. Dad said that all the welfare kids had the same shoes and clothes, so everybody at school knew who they were.  One year, when Dad was in 7th grade, his good friend told him about how  he was helping the Catholic Church in his parish. They were bringing turkeys to the poor families and his buddy told him "we brought one to your house!" Dad wanted to crawl under a rock!

The system is different today of course and yes, some people use it and it makes it easier to justify not working when you have a safety net that supports you. However, the vast majority of single mom's raising kids did not get that way because of welfare. To suggest otherwise would mean that not having welfare, would cause irresponsible men who don't want to be good fathers or get married .........to turn into good husbands and fathers if only they would get rid of welfare.

You have nailed the problem but are blaming way too much of it on the wrong reason. 

Young black males commit violent crimes at a rate(in the study that I sourced a couple of year ago) 6 times higher than young white males. Being raised without a good male role model has alot to do with that. Would taking away welfare cause young black men to suddenly metamorphose into responsible fathers and husbands?

Maybe you think that young black women would stop having sexual relationships or use better protection if there was no welfare. 

Turns out that black women actually abort more babies than they raise in many big cities and many of them raise those children without husbands. If they are having those children because it gets them welfare, then we must assume that no welfare would result in a higher black abortion rate.

The welfare system is not the main problem in this case. Changing the culture requires outside help. These people on welfare and in the inner cities that were raised by single parents(moms) or in dysfunctional families, don't have the understanding or blue prints to know how to be good parents(especially the men) or how to be successful in life. 

There has to be something that interrupts the repeating, viscous cycle via the education system or thru local organizations that connect with vulnerable children, starting at young age to teach them. 

I strongly believe that good parenting classes in high school should be mandatory, especially in low income areas with single parent families. Can you teach love? This is not about religion but that's exactly what the 4 Gospels of Jesus did. .....and its blossomed into Christianity that has profoundly changed the world for the much better. What I'm suggesting is ethics classes combined with parenting classes.  The principles go hand in hand.  Teach children to respect others, the value of human life and what a good parent and spouse should be doing in a successful relationship. Have people in their community(ideally from their neighborhood) come in to share their positive experiences as dad's/husbands and mothers/wifes.  

With absolute certainty, this would have a profoundly positive affect on many children in dysfunctional families. 

https://education.seattlepi.com/would-mandatory-parenting-classes-schools-good-idea-1803.html

Teaching  at school can only do so much. What happens when they leave school to a bad neighborhood with a bad parent(s)?

A high % of bad black fathers are in prison. This is another topic altogether but it's another golden opportunity for other men, regardless of color to step forward and be mentors, role models or good examples. This is absolutely realistic.

How would that work? First you identify the men. Many will be from the suburbs, many, will be older and will have already raised their own children successfully. Some will be very young and want to have a family but haven't found the right partner yet.  I have recruited men like this to be my basketball, soccer and baseball coaches(mostly the younger ones for sports). If you offered money, you will get more than just volunteers but most people like this don't do it for money. There needs to be screening, background checks and child protection classes to avoid predators/pedophiles that will weasel into programs like this to abuse boys. 

Men, filling in as a positive father figures/ideally foster parents(even if they are paid) will and do make a difference in most of these boys lives. The younger the child, the better chance to connect with them before the bad things in the world surrounding them define who they are:

https://www.fosterfocusmag.com/articles/just-foster-dads-part-1

Forget about the welfare or no welfare issue or government, no government's role. Either situation is a recipe for failure if you don't have responsible adults that understand what it takes to be good parents applying their love and skills to the at risk, vulnerable children.

Most parents and spouses learned about parenting/married life from being their parents children. 

We spend billions of dollars on the education system but fail to educate and prepare children for the most important role they will ever have as adults. 

If these are such great idea's why aren't are paid politicians and government on to it?

Our politicians and government don't work for us much of the time and their ideas are usually not creative unless it ties in with something that will help them get elected........promises to give people things like reparations for blacks or free health care or free college. ....or to save the planet(sorry if that offends anybody from one party-but if you look at my belief system today,  its the one that defined the democrats from the old days-which included me). 

Being a good parent(and citizen) is several orders of magnitude more important to individuals/families and society than actions to address a fake climate crisis........even if there was a climate crisis. "

The correlation between a good job(or lack of one) and crime for young black males is indisputable. Before the coronavirus crisis, we had been making great progress going back to Obama's few years:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52907646

Previous to that progress, however things were getting WORSE for young black men's employment opportunities and participation in higher education.........which caused their violent crime to get worse.

It's not rocket science people, it's social science and economic science and the data is crystal clear! Do insist on law enforcement being better trained but include that as a part of the solution. 

Feel the Heat!The Unrelenting Challenge of Young Black Male Unemployment!

https://www.clasp.org/sites/default/files/public/resources-and-publications/files/Feel-the-Heat_Web.pdf