If true, this would make it even MORE important for unvaccinated people to protect themselves!!!!

Using your own study Gunter:

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/72685/#72720

"However, the effectiveness of the vaccine in preventing severe coronavirus disease in Israel is currently estimated at 91.4 percent, and in preventing COVID-19 hospitalization,at 88 percent."

well of course, metmike..... unvaccinated people should most certainly protect themselves, even if it's just to protect against the virus.

However, this crazy article  now tells us that vaccinated people are spreaders..  Now unvaccinated people have to avoid contact with vaccinated ones, if this link is true

It's getting crazier and crazier.  Hopefully, it's "misinformation"

Again, thanks for pushing is into using N95 masks... I still see too many cloth masks out there.

"well of course, metmike..... unvaccinated people should most certainly protect themselves, even if it's just to protect against the virus."

Hugh?

You've spent the last several weeks dwelling neurotically on junk science reasons why COVID vaccinations are not nearly as good as advertised............and THEY are hiding it from us  and  that COVID vaccinations are killing massive amounts of people and THEY are hiding that from us too. 

By an extraordinarily wide margin the LEGIT way for unvaccinated people to protect themselves is to get vaccinated.

And of course people should get vaccinated even though THEY tell us to do that.

you also wrote:

Using your own study Gunter:

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/72685/#72720

"However, the effectiveness of the vaccine in preventing severe coronavirus disease in Israel is currently estimated at 91.4 percent, and in preventing COVID-19 hospitalization,at 88 percent."+

I  don't know why you brought this up. I don't see how it relates  to the original post in this thread. This old post was telling us that in Israel the Pfizer vaxx as a 39% efficacy against the Delta.  This, and hospitalization rates are not mentioned in the current thread.

This thread is about the crazy claim that vaccinated people are "spreaders'... and that's hard to digest.

"I  don't know why you brought this up. I don't see how it relates  to the original post in this thread"

Gunter,

You've been way beyond seeing connections that I make here on your COVID crap for a long time now.

I've already spent hours explaining, re explaining, then re re explaining the exact same things to you, so many times that the only reason I do it now is knowing that there are so many lurkers(readers that don't post) that might be tuning in for the first time.

Previously, at the end of this thread, there was a post by me, and a reply by metmike, the forum moderator.

Both posts were deleted by the moderator.

I need to make a public apology to metmike.  My response to his earlier comments was indeed "childish", as he stated. My post did not fit the standards of this forum..

At the same time, I also need to apologize to all the forum friends.  Such exchanges cause a disturbance in the civil exchange of ideas.  None of you should have been exposed to this.

At my age, I should have known better.

Again, my apologies to all!

Thanks Gunter, I didn't delete any entire posts....... it was at the end of this thread below where I referred to your comment as being childish, then deleted that specific comment by me.

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/72762/

I contacted Gunter personally by email earlier today and will just copy what I emailed to him in the last email.

When he received my initial email, he thought that I was banning him. Instead, I was trying to salvage out friendship. I'm sending this as an example of what friends do to get along, even with irreconcilable differences in political opinions.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Thanks Gunter,

There is almost no way that I could ever ban you from MarketForum because I know what's in your heart.

As moderator, I MUST be held to the highest standard..........higher than any individual poster there.

At least that's what I think is what the best moderator should do.

You are in a totally different class than the likes of vandenplas, mojo, wxdavid and a few others. Nothing personal against them and I gave all of them many, many warnings and assistance in trying to keep them on but they just were not nice people and were not capable of acting nice or respecting others.

I've always felt that those that are the hardest to love.........are often the ones that need love the most. But when running a forum trying to make the world a better place and setting good examples.....we just couldn't have posters shitting on other posters.

It was actually breaking my heart, like the loss of a good friend for our discussions to turn so toxic, Gunter.

I do value friendships and the value of every human being. You are one of the best.

If it were any other topic or any other place, I would have long ago let it go because the damage is not worth the battle.

This is one of the rare exceptions.

I know with absolute, positive confidence that people not getting vaccinated is a big part of why COVID is making a big comeback here.   It's not just a matter of us disagreeing on something. You may not agree with that but in clear conscience and as a scientist and moderator of a forum that has at least hundreds of readers every day, I am compelled ethically to send out a clear message which helps people, not hurts people or even kills people.

I know that you disagree with the science but I have to do the right thing.

I'm always looking forward to making adjustments to the science to enhance what we know and you can hopefully be a part of that but at the end of the day, TODAY, the message has to be one that encourages people to do what will save lives.....get vaccinated.

I am not being stubborn to show that I'm right as most people do in arguments. I am doing what I know is the right thing.

Regardless, I feel better to know that our friendship continues, which I value a great deal personally.

Mike"

This is how civilized people  act when they have what feels like an irreconcilable disagreement to continue friendships.

Thanks Gunter.

metmike, thank you for this nice letter. 

We are obviously in opposite camps, when it comes to the Covid vaxx.

Nevertheless, I fully respect and admire how you moderate this forum. I have read other forums, and seen some of them as cesspools of hatred. Your goal has always been to “help make the world a better place”.  Thank you!

I only want to make a couple things clear for our friends here.

I am not an anti-vaxxer. I have always taken every shot my doctor wanted me to take.

However, I am anti-mRNA/”DNA therapy”. And this is not because I think I know everything better (I am not a virologist)… this view was developed over the last view months by listening to highly qualified experts in this field.

I am also not anti-science. I have worked for quite a few years in the aerospace bizz. When we send spacecraft to another planet, it’s all about science, nothing but science. I am no stranger to science.

My argument is: “science” needs valid and accurate data. I believe there is plenty of evidence that a large portion of the data in this pandemic has been tampered with.

I am also disturbed by the huge efforts of those in charge, to keep the People uninformed. For me the most appalling incident was last week, when the POTUS asked Facebook to censor negative vaxx information. The social media have already been doing this… but the POTUS???

This shows that this forum has more "class" than the mainstream social media. Thank you for allowing people with opposing views to post.

Again, I encourage you to keep running this forum as you have been doing.

And I know, you don’t mind when I post some views that come from “the opposite site” (as long as it is not offensive).

Thank you

.

Thanks Gunter,

I totally get that and see those valid points.

My main priority right now, however is to send the right message that saves lives based on the authentic science of THIS vaccine.

If you have not been vaccinated, please get vaccinated ASAP.